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Watanabe Street Frames

Old 01-13-08, 06:46 AM
  #1  
tokyofixedgear
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Watanabe Street Frames

Mr Watanabe will be making track frames specifically for street riding. Extra strong tubing and tougher lugs. These frames are not "off the peg" , but they will for many reasons ( one being final cost ) be built in batches with no corners cut. They will be sold on the tokyofixedgear web shop when it goes up later this year. What size specs do you recommend? What are you willing to pay? Assuming you know the quality and average price for new frames from NJS certified builders, is there a market for this kind of frame? Any comments would be appreciated.
This post is nothing to do with a previous post I saw of a similar nature.

Last edited by tokyofixedgear; 01-13-08 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 01-13-08, 06:59 AM
  #2  
shogun17
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If it has njs stamps, there will be a market.
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Old 01-13-08, 08:43 AM
  #3  
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If you get a custom build and your not a keirin rider the frame doesn't get an njs stamp.
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Old 01-13-08, 09:10 AM
  #4  
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I heard about this about a year ago but nothing came of it.

I think you know the sizes that are best. 52 up to 57 or so.
People would pay up to $7-800 IMHO but not a whole lot more. There is also the $80 cost of shipping from Japan to consider.
If you go too much over that price people will more likely choose an NJS frame off ebay.
Also, there is at least one other Japanese builder that's going to be doing this same thing soon. So ive heard. You'll have that competition to deal with as well.

Last edited by deathhare; 01-13-08 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-13-08, 11:10 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by deathhare View Post
I heard about this about a year ago but nothing came of it.

I think you know the sizes that are best. 52 up to 57 or so.
People would pay up to $7-800 IMHO but not a whole lot more. There is also the $80 cost of shipping from Japan to consider.
If you go too much over that price people will more likely choose an NJS frame off ebay.
Also, there is at least one other Japanese builder that's going to be doing this same thing soon. You'll have that competition to deal with as well.
Well actually not just that one you don't mention the name, but there are a few other NJS builders that sell quality "skeletons" over here at around the price range you mentioned( maybe a little more depending on headset, tubing, chrome, etc.).
If Nagasawa starting selling a decent skeleton for $900...drool would become reality for me
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Old 01-13-08, 12:41 PM
  #6  
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This sounds great and everything but since anyone with some patience can currently score a used Keirin frameset with high quality BB and headset plus the NJS-stamp from teh 'bay for less than 500USD, I'd question whether there will be a huge demand for these kind of new such frames.

But maybe I'm wrong here, especially if there are customs options like cool colors etc. available.
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Old 01-13-08, 01:05 PM
  #7  
curiousincident
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While it's true you can get frames off of ebay, it's a pain to find the right size (which most of us have to pay a 100 dollar or so premium to get anything bigger than a 53cm) and the frames in the best condition with nice paint jobs can cost another 100-200 bucks more than the average 51cm frame. Buying new guarantees mint condition, you don't have to settle for a size that might not be perfect for you, and since these are made for the street I imagine they'll be making sure these look sharp.

Wasn't there one US shop somewhere that was importing Panasonics and selling them for like 900 bucks or something like that? IIRC those sold well, I don't see why these wouldn't.
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Old 01-13-08, 04:26 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by tokyofixedgear View Post
If you get a custom build and your not a keirin rider the frame doesn't get an njs stamp.
Yeah, thought so, market just halved.
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Old 01-13-08, 06:22 PM
  #9  
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group buy?
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Old 01-13-08, 07:44 PM
  #10  
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someone just steal the NJS builders paint supply and gift it to meeeeee
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Old 01-13-08, 09:55 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by jussik View Post
This sounds great and everything but since anyone with some patience can currently score a used Keirin frameset with high quality BB and headset plus the NJS-stamp from teh 'bay for less than 500USD, I'd question whether there will be a huge demand for these kind of new such frames.

But maybe I'm wrong here, especially if there are customs options like cool colors etc. available.
The point is that NJS frames are not built for street, they are churned out very quickly and built specifically to be ridden for a short time on a smooth track. In the words of Watanabe San himself they are even dangerous. I wouldn't go as far as agreeing they are dangerous, I ride an njs frame and feel safe but there is defiantly allot of room for improvement especially in the forks.
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Old 01-13-08, 10:03 PM
  #12  
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I like the idea.
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Old 01-13-08, 10:43 PM
  #13  
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Group buy at $300 - $500 (inc. shipping) price range would be realistic?

Some people are just looking for a NJS stump as Class-A hipster license budge, but I'm not one of them. I'd love to have something durable quality frame from Japan for everyday street use but still very compact racy geometry for fun ride. Also I can't ride something too fancy stuff in SF.

How many orders anyone thing they need for an international group buy?
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Old 01-13-08, 11:19 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by tokyofixedgear View Post
Extra strong tubing
what would this be then?
i dont figure there'll be much of a market for these as you can get the real deal for probably less than these will likely cost (ebay etc) and you can get those 4130 joints for way cheap
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Old 01-13-08, 11:21 PM
  #15  
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I'm not a big NJS fan but I'd be into a $500 lugged heavy duty frame. Even if it did have an NJS stamp.

I say this year's group buy.
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Old 01-13-08, 11:29 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by TimArchy View Post
I'm not a big NJS fan but I'd be into a $500 lugged heavy duty frame. Even if it did have an NJS stamp.

I say this year's group buy.
truth'd
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Old 01-13-08, 11:39 PM
  #17  
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I cant say a price but they will be allot more than everything estimated so far. No one could sell a new hand built frame with heavy duty Kasei for $500.
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Old 01-13-08, 11:55 PM
  #18  
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That's being unfair. Anyone could sell one of those frames for $500, but they would be a fool.


However, depending on what these frames end up being exactly, I would probably be willing to fork over $800 shipped.
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Old 01-14-08, 12:38 AM
  #19  
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i say paint colors are gonna be a big deal. i've seen a lot of watanabes with insane flourescent fades and stuff. exotic and obnoxious looking frames in 53-6 or so seem to fetch the most on ebay. i mean, yeah, there's a lot of frames out there, but just not that many of them are hot-pink, 54 cm kalavinkas, you know? seriously it makes me wanna f**king vomit and die just thinking about it how everything is not a hot-pink kalavinka. uhhh, anyway... if we're talking about real custom frames, color and size, with quality lugwork and tubing, and beautiful psychedelic watanabe decals - i'd say anything under $1000 is a good deal. maybe i'm a jaded hipster though. but look at how much people pay for vanilla, coast, moyer, etc...
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Old 01-14-08, 02:23 AM
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Apparently, you can order a custom Panasonic for under 7 bills in japan. I think asking more for a street-ready watanabe skeleton is going to limit demand. It would really depend on the specifics of the frame.

EDIT: and build a 58 and a 60, I'm sure there are plenty 6 footers who would jump at the chance of having a watanabe in their size at a fair price.
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Old 01-14-08, 03:19 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by tokyofixedgear View Post
The point is that NJS frames are not built for street, they are churned out very quickly and built specifically to be ridden for a short time on a smooth track. In the words of Watanabe San himself they are even dangerous. I wouldn't go as far as agreeing they are dangerous, I ride an njs frame and feel safe but there is defiantly allot of room for improvement especially in the forks.
I always though that one point about the NJS frames was the fact that they are rigorously tested for high standard of quality and durability etc.?

Obviously using them as MASH-style trick bikes is not a good idea and there was the Vivalo fork indicent but still.
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Old 01-14-08, 05:04 AM
  #22  
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The Japanese Keirin association (NJS) is nothing to do with this frame! Whats a skeleton frame?
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Old 01-14-08, 05:42 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Avian View Post
Apparently, you can order a custom Panasonic for under 7 bills in japan. I think asking more for a street-ready watanabe skeleton is going to limit demand. It would really depend on the specifics of the frame.

EDIT: and build a 58 and a 60, I'm sure there are plenty 6 footers who would jump at the chance of having a watanabe in their size at a fair price.
a custom panasonic isn't under $700 -- that's just the price for the frame. you still have to build the bike.
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Old 01-14-08, 07:16 AM
  #24  
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frankie....all we were talking about was the frame in the first place.
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Old 01-14-08, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tokyofixedgear View Post
The Japanese Keirin association (NJS) is nothing to do with this frame!
Yet it's all people can talk about in this thread, which is sad, especially when you're trying to offer us something that we actually need instead of a useless NJS stamp. I'm really kind of disappointed. Not that I don't like NJS frames, but this seems to make so much more sense, especially for the freestyler types - a nice track frame that is actually built for street use.
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