sp00ki

yeah... i'm beginning to realize that the first option is probably not really going to work.

kemmer

I would buy one with horizontal dropouts, not track ends. Or maybe track ends with a derailer hanger. Or something. I would probably run it geared since I have a SS tandem already.

Re-Cycle

spooki, this annoys the heck out of me. A tandem group buy will obviously never happen. Buy a steel road tandem frame and quit dreaming.

sp00ki

care to discuss your motivation? i'm not sure why this isn't feasible.

MrCjolsen

Because the most of us have no use for a fixed gear tandem because we're basically a bunch of arrogant smartasses who don't really like people that much. Would you get on a bike with me? I wouldn't.

frankstoneline

I'd get on a bike with you, everyone deserves a chance.

Metricoclock

i have a heavy ass cruiser tandem..... that i ride around alone on and get funny looks and coments, but i don't care because it's so much fun and huge.

If i got one, i can only envision a scary scene with me and knucks sprinting full speed across town, **** that would scare me ****less.

Re-Cycle

Because group buys are unwieldy, difficult and ******** from the beginning. How many GD group buy threads are there of people wistfully talking about getting the bike of their dreams at a discount... and then everything falls through. You know I don't mean to be a naysayer but good gosh a track tandem isn't going to be cheap even if you had 50 people buying them and you are NOT going to find 10 people that come up with a down payment so... like I said. Road tandem conversion.

BRANDUNE

https://www.doubledates.com/Buy_Sell/body_buy_sell.html

yonderboy

Silly huerro, BFSSFG doesn't care about track people.

Dumpsterlife

this is why nader will never get elected

BYAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

AHemp

I want to run those stoker bars on a regular bike.

Noestaencasa

Nope, closer to 2700 per frame.
See, in addition to the standard "framebuilding cost of doing business", even a cheap paintjob, is still like 6bills minimum for tandems... Both of the track tandems I had done took a week + to fabricate and another week to get the finish work done. I suppose TIG is an option...

DW

sp00ki

Question:
my girlfriend purchased last years IRO group buy frame for $200. The frame has proven to be a pretty reliable frame, looks good, isn't as heavy as we expected (the fork is another story, but i digress...); all in all a quality purchase.
why was it possible to get a quality, utilitarian grade track frame at such a low price but unrealistic to get a tandem frame of similar pricing for under $1500? Surely there isn't 7.5 times the ammount of work/material involved...

bward1028

how about a tube set + lugs groupbuy? then you could buy two and make a tandem, and everyone else could make a single bike,.

huerro

I could be wrong, but I would imagine that 7 times the work isn't too bad of a guess, with that number decreasing with volume.

You have double the material and welds to do. More importantly you would need to tool up. There's no tandems in the Maxway catalog for you to point at. Not even a road model you can braze track ends on to. This means build, borrow, or buy a tandem jig or farm it out to someone who has one. This also means you pay wages to someone in the states (or CA, JP, etc) to build it instead of some Taiwainese assembly line worker to toss tubes in a mill, then a jig, and tig them.

sp00ki

i see... so the same place that built the aforementioned iros would be likely incapable of building tandems?
if that's the case, then i suppose this is in fact an unrealistic idea. but is that really the case?

bward1028

doesn't look ike it:
https://bicycle-frame.bicyclenet.com.tw/

sp00ki

surely there are others...
though i really don't know anything about that industry, so my apologies if i sound naive.

Noestaencasa

I can tell you why, in 3 words.

Made in China.

If you want handmade in USA, you are going to pay for it.

if you want utilitarian tandems, i am sure there are plenty of overseas companies you can get to make them. Why doesnt Iro offer tandems? My guess is that insurance is a big issue...

The cost of doing business as a US based framebuilder prohibits us from doing them on the cheap, like you for the price you are asking for.

Could they be done? Yes. Would they be the quality that a US builder wants to put his name on? No.

The reason being is that tandems really are a butt load of work. In addition to the extra tubes and mitering, the finish work that goes into them is painstaking and lets not forget the alignment on a bike thats twice as long. Time = $$$$
When you have cheap labor, you have cheap prices. Your margin is higher based on how low the labor costs are. I have ranted about Chinese frames for years now, and the low cost of them.


If you want to contribute to the local economy, or want to make sure that US framebuilding stays alive and well, or you want to support an artisan, order a custom and spend extra $ for the higher quality you can get from a framebuilder.



DW

sp00ki

quite frankly, as much as i'd like to i don't know that i can justify purchasing a $2,500 bicycle frame right now-- tandem or otherwise.
without derailling the conversation too much, the main reason that everyone and their mom has what can be considered a "decent quality" bicycle is the fact that companies like trek or fuji outsorce their labor to asian factories.
it's a fact of life that handbuilt american frames are a luxury. i bought my bob jackson frameset (not american, but you get my point) for what i think was just under $700 shipped. cost was the main reason i didn't get a custom one. i "skimped" on an off-the-peg frame at a price that most people would never pay for a complete.
if i could afford a multi thousand dollar tandem frame right now, i wouldn't have started this thread. instead, i'd be filling out a litespeed order form
IRO does their group buys overseas in taiwan. while i'd much rather this be happening in the united states, the cost involved with doing that prohibits it. i'm being realistic-- the only way i'll be able to own an american made tandem frame is if it's used. if i come accross a used one that fits, is in good condition and is at a price i can afford, i'll definitely take advantage of the opportunity.
until then, however, i'm guessing that an overseas group buy or a trek/fuji/raleigh/etc conversion is the only way this is going to happen for me.
i'm hoping for the former...

abeyance

I knew DW would show up and drop some of the best wisdom since 11.4. Good job Don.

nateintokyo

you should get this one fixed: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5unMlXg6WL4&feature=related

....so you could ride both directions!

anomaly

Eff tandems, I want at triplet!

Noestaencasa

Why?
Do you really know 2 other people you can trust to not do something stupid like lean the wrong way?

DW