I like my Phils; they've lasted forever and do what they're supposed to. That being said, I got them used for a really good price. I'm not a discerning enough rider to pay full retail for them as opposed to a set of formulas. If I could only buy new, I would buy cheaper. I just got lucky and got high-end for a mid-range price.

So are you saying loose ball is faster?

yes. loose ball is faster.

Trollin' trollin' trollin'....

Au contraire monsieur, I've ridden both hubs on the track and there's definitely a difference. But between the two bikes, one also has looseball BB while the other is cheapo Shimano, and one is a pound or two lighter. So there could be other variables (weight?) accounting for the differnce, but the lighter bike with loose ball stuff is also geared 2 inches higher yet easier to get up to speed...

Did you even read what I wrote?

Loose ball have less drag, but for riding on the street it's really academic. You won't be able to tell the difference. As you live in sunny Finland, you'd be mad to go with loose ball because you'd be overhauling them very often.

Ha, I have lost a hub, partially due to not overhauling it.

Differences noticed on the track = possible bias in differences "noticed" on the street, yes?

So what you are saying is that because you arent willing to overhaul your hubs every 3 to 4 months, cartridge bearings are better. I think anyone can spare 30 minutes every 3 to 4 months. Park tools suggests you overhaul your hubs once a year if it isnt a bike ridden daily or for many many miles, and 3 times if it's a daily ridden bike that gets taken out in rough weather. Overhauling every 3 months would be 4 times a year, accounting for the fact that you really like some nice clean hubs spinnin' disco fresh. Overall, you are looking at 2 hours a year spent maintaining hubs. Honestly? I think the benefits of sealed bearing hubs are negligable. People have ridden loose ball hubs for years without problems.

ahahhaha....balls

More like overhauling every two weeks; and I have other things to do besides futzing with my bike all the time. My cartridge bearing hubs spin just fine and need little attention. There is no reason NOT to use cartridge bearings

I bought my set of phils for $269 on eBay. I wanted the perfect heavy duty wheelset so I built them up to velocity deep vs and double butted spokes and big 14mm brass nipples (1 gram each!). what i got was a heavy set of wheels...

if i could do it again, i would do low profile phils to open pro cds and alloy nipples. I'd like to go lighter. i think the low pros would look better/more original, too.

anyone? I don't want to start a new thread just for this

Phil only (I think) endorses the use of Phil cogs on their hubs. Several of my friends run Surly cogs on Phils (supposedly the worst thing ever) with no trouble. I say go for it. Worst case scenario, you sell off the cogs.

How are cartridge bearings adjusted?

I would say, when installing them make sure they are seated all the way. Thats all I can think of.

I've run a rear Phil for about four years now. I have only run DA cogs on them w/o any issues. That is why you buy a Phil. You put it on your bike and that's it...no issues.

I think the coolest thing about Phils are the stainless steel locking threads. Most hubs have Aluminum threads but I am pretty sure the Phils are stainless steel. This is why you really have to **** up to strip the threads.

At first I thought the bearing drag was an issue but after I started riding on the hub I realized how awesome they are!

Here's my testimonial to cartridge bearings. I rode the bike that is currently my winter beater for 10 years before it became my winter beater, and 2 winters before ever touching the hubs. Admittedly it didn't have that many miles on it before becoming the winter beater. The hubs are old Suntours laced to Araya 26" rims with galvanized steel spokes. nothing fancy at all. After 4 winters being ridden daily through snow and slush and crap, the front still spin like new. that front wheel is one of the best spinning wheels I've ever seen. The rear is in need of new bearings, at least on the drive side, but that's a lot of miles and a lot of abuse for one set of bearings. In that same time I've gone through countless bottom brackets, both loose ball and cartridge variety.

They had NSK 6001 cartridgebearings. NSK is a high quality Japanese bearing manufacturer, and I think Phil Wood bearings would be hard pressed to be any kind of improvement, but that was what I ordered to replace them, because they are the high quality bearings available from bike distributors. I doubt the claims that they have better seals than anyone else since Phil doesn't make their own bearings. They "have them made to their specs" which means whatever manufacturer makes them for Phil clearly has the capability to make them for themselves. I could get NSK 6001 from any bearing dealer, but I know the Phil Wood are excellent bearings, and I can get them cheaper than MKS bearings through QBP. I wouldn't hesitate to put an NSK bearing in any bike hub though. Talk about bomb proof.





this one still spins well after 4 winters, but the drive side one is getting a bit crunchy.

Wow don't even have anything to refute it with except a ******** accusation of being a troll? Cat got your tongue?

all this talk about the price of things once again makes me baffled that people spend retail price on bike parts. i'm not bragging about a shop discount - there's so much stuff to be had cheaply, used, when you stop clicking through ebay and start talking to people.

Aside from the NJS stuff, one of the reasons Phil and CK stuff is so pricey is that it's made in the USA. Add in the stellar customer service that usually comes with stuff made in the USA, and you get a cost increase.
Just wanted to point out: Phil doesn't make bearings. Phil Wood sells hubs and BB's and stuff with Phil-spec'ed bearings. You can buy replacement equivalent bearings from Phil Wood, or you can also buy equivalent bearings from any number of sources.

When you're riding 40 hours a week year round (often under lousy conditions) those 2 hours don't sound that great... or, they didn't anyway.

I am somewhat amused that Phil's get dismissed as mere brand-lust while Duraace get a pass.

In my experience cartridge bearings could be purchased more cheaply from bearing supply shops than bike stores.

Back in the day I would jump my Phil Wood hubed BMX bike into full swimming pools and never ever did the hubs ever give me any problems. Bulletproof may be an understatement here.

They are properly installed and the cones in the hub are adjusted.