Originally Posted by mattface (Post 6617831)

No the hype that they are something special made to special secret Phil Wood specs with a blend of 11 secret herbs and spices and putting them into your brand new Formulas will make them spin like Phils. That's the hype I'm talking about. I don't deny they are good bearings, but Spooki was not the first person I've seen suggest that replacing new bearings with Phils might make their hubs spin better. In my experience most bicycle hubs use high quality sealed bearings on par with Phils. Suntour, Miche, Suzue Promax, and even the new Dimensions I have all use high Quality Japanese made bearings from the same manufacturers Phil apparently uses.

More grease is always a good thing for bearing longevity, but it also slows a bearing down marginally. Light grease or oil is faster, so if a 30% fill will last for more than 4 years of hard use in snow and slush, I'm not sure 100% fill is an improvement. Then again I'm also not sure Suntour didn't also spec a higher fill of waterproof Grease. All we have is Phil Woods claims that their bearings are special. They certainly aren't doing something no one else could do. Finding the exact same bearing in my 15 year old hub sort of made me think the Phils really aren't that special. That's OK, I'm very happy with the bearings I had, and I'm happy to have more of the same.

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6618064)

bearing like PW, but the fact of the matter is that no one does.

Originally Posted by mattface (Post 6618364)

Not even Phil Wood, because Phil Wood doesn't make bearings.

Really now, WHY would NSK make a lesser bearing with the same exact designation, and sell it for a similar price to their other customers than the one they sell to Phil Wood? MAYBE Phil Wood specs more or different grease, but I can't imagine they get higher tolerance bearings than any other customer unless they spend a LOT more for their bearings, and I don't believe they pay a lot more for the bearings they sell for $6 each than another company selling them for $5. You CAN get better bearings though you just have to pay more.

A quick google for 6001 bearings turns up bearings anywhere from $1.50 for cheap steal sealed cartridges to $150 for full ceramics. Phil Wood also sell Ceramic Bearings costing as much as $67 each. If they can buy them from the manufacturer, then the manufacturer is making them. They are NOT putting any special labeling on the seals or anywhere else to indicate they are anything special, or even branded as Phils, so what is to stop them selling the exact bearing to someone else, and how can you be so sure they don't?

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6618491)

Why would NSK make a bearing with the same designation and yet different specs? Because they make bearings mostly for machines, not bicycle hubs, and machine motor bearings have less grease in them so they don't burn out the motor.

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6619139)

^^^^

Do you realize that Suntour has been out of business for years? Good luck finding NOS Suntour bearings. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by mattface (Post 6619259)

Yes I realize that. Why do you think I bought Phils? :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer (Post 6619335)

The 6001 bearings are still part of NSK's inventory. Can still get 'em.

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6619393)

Sure can, and they're spec'd for machine motors, not bicycle hubs.

Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer (Post 6619465)

As near as I can tell they are the same..same product number in the catalog, same sizing..everything.
How would bike bearings differ from motor bearings... I've torn enough skateboard bearings apart ... they're all constructed the same. Phil uses NTN bearings with the orange/black seals for grease instead of oil lubrication, can even order skateboard bearings from Phil's site. All in the sizing.

hmm wouldn't a machine motors requirements of a bearing be higher?

Originally Posted by wheelsucker (Post 6623292)

If you want a real bearing contact Ron at http://www.skatetechnology.com/. This man worked for NASA specing and designing bearings for all kind of uses. I'm sure he can throw you something together for a price. They will be the best an last set of bearings you buy, period! Ceramic or Steel, but like any fine performance bearing maintaing is a must, that means dont be lazy. I have used his bearings bike/skateboarding and they are technology from another planet.

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6623365)

How do you do maintenance on a sealed cartridge bearing?

Originally Posted by mattface (Post 6623552)

Pull out the seals, clean out the old grease with a good solvent, dry and force fresh grease through from one side to the other. This would also make that "100% fill" point moot since you can do that with any new bearing.

Speaking of I pulled a seal off one of those old NSK bearings even after all those miles and all the weather they were still full of grease, so I'm thinking Suntour did indeed spec more than 30% fill which would probably explain why they lasted so long with no maintenance. I think I'll clean and repack these and put em away for the next time I need new bearings.

I'll post pics of the "old" grease when I get the chance.

If you want to repack cartridge bearings, a tool like this is very handy, and worthwhile if you'll be doing it fairly regularly. I might just order one for the bike coop.

Originally Posted by mattface (Post 6623885)

Just to be clear I've never said anything AGAINST phil wood bearings. I believe them to be of high quality, and I do believe that 100% grease fil will go a long way to ensure longevity. The part I think is hype is that no one else makes them like that.

As for repacking. Clean out the water, and any other contaminants along with the old grease, and assuming the balls and races weren't damaged they will be as good as new just like with cup and cone bearings.

Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer (Post 6623707)

Sorry if I was unclear Ziemas, but a differing grease in an otherwise identical bearing, in my mind at least doesn't make it much of a different bearing. Phil would order 1000 of prt#6001, and say to finish it with our grease. I'll grant that would make it a Phil spec'd bearing, but spec'n to me says tool and die work which this certainly is not. If you have a non-rain bike.. you can pry the seal off one side of the bearing, clean and repack, for my speed wheels (vert ramp skateboard) I'd clean em' out and use just a light grease/oil, and put them back in the wheels non-sealed side in. They would spin forever. I never used a bearing packing tool, I always ghetto'd it by hand... I might have to grab one of those.....hmmm skateboards, bikes, lol-lerblades.

Even bearings left out in the rain can be brought back to life... think of the backyard skateboard.
Though for the price one could find them at... why bother except for the fun factor.
Going out to buy industrial bearings and some Phils grease.

Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer (Post 6624103)

Fer real..to Lativa? the tool and die reference was to say that's where I feel spec's get different...grease type and grease fill levels are finishing for the customer IHMO. hmmm now I'm curious I'm going to poke around locally and see what's out there. I'm imagining quite a bit here in Ontario, loads of manufacturing so logically bearing companies abound.