& you feel the need to be a spokesperson for me, why?

I love the loose ball BBs.
Ive ran them in the rain without issue. Just should service them from time to time. Its not hard at all and I like how they look.
Of course, theyre slightly faster they say but I doubt you'd notice a difference.

As far as frames, NJS frames are basically the same no matter what the logo IMHO. Tubing changes things, of course but, the build quality is a 10 on all Ive ever seen.
Theyre all built to very high standards.

http://www.bikeforums.net//showthrea...igbris+3rensho

'cept for that whole issue with Vivalo forks breaking... ;)

That's why they are no longer NJS.

Reread my post. I said cheaper as in lower price, not cheaper as in lower quality. Bridgestones are almost always some of the most reasonably priced NJS frames but the quality is very high.

^ for sure. Bridgestones are great and def on the cheaper (price) end of NJS frames. Didn't bridgestone just buy a bunch of NJS frames and re-badge them as their own?

Please do not buy NJS for a daily rider. Keep the Soma as a daily rider and use the NJS bike as your weekend mobile... Trust me.

^ that's also true.

Haven't heard that at all.

Bridgestone has a decent history of making very nice frames though. There is a cult following of vintage bike enthusiasts who are willing to pay 2 or 3x more for an 80's/early 90's Bridgestone road bike like RB-1/RB-2 vs. similarly equipped but lesser valued brands of the same era.

Yeah I'm not sure where I heard it but I heard they were rebadged, similar to Rap bikes.

I ride a Pinarello Montello-- it is perfect for fixed and ss riding on the street--
Kerin bikes are straight track geometry--- toe slap--- eye candy for thieves--
delicate tubes for the ghetto--- If I could afford an old style lugged track--- I would
try KHS. ( though I am out of whiskey, and I know that khs has nothing lugged--
i knew that.....)

aliens are also a quarter of the price of a brand new NJS frame, and TBH, i'd rather have a decent generic double-butted cro-mo on a street ride than something lightweight. it's not going to make that muchof a difference.

um, either way, it takes a decnet amount of skill to braze a lugged frame, no matter which asian country you're from. and who says the guy brazing frames in the taiwanese factory enjoys his job any less than the guy in the japanese factory? very few frame concerns in japan are one-man shops, and in the case of bridgestone, i'm pretty sure they have just as many workers on the floor as maxway. these are still mass-produced frames in both cases.

moot point. you can just as easily get a NJS HS/BB combo for an alien if you want. hell, the fork crown on aliens is JIS anyway.

not unless you go custom. most keirin builders won't even let you choose the type of tubing.

i'm sure the resale value on an alien would be pretty decent, NJS frames are overpriced anyway.

IIRC, the factory that makes aliens (and kazane frames for that matter, and possibly the lugged somas) is owned by maxway, one of the largest producers of bikes in the world, period. if you think the quality control isn't just as strong as any other factory anywhere else, well that's just dumb.

not trying to argue, but each of your points was pretty well unfounded.

disclaimer: i own an alien, and i'm pretty f**king impressed and happy with it.

i WANT a colnago master lugged steel track bike-- leave me now...............................

I was just too lazy.

bfssfg, where 5 apples are no more valuable than 1 apple.

Thanks jitensha for doing what I was too lazy to do myself... all good points. I've ridden nice NJS frames on the street and I'd rather have slightly burlier tubing for a daily rider, I think most other people would want the same if they ride hard... and a lot of keirin bikes are DB 4130 /, Kaisei 019/022 (lower to middle range tubes) as well ,not the really high end stuff like Genius, 753, 853 and 8630.

Ebay up an old frame?

RAP is built by Nemoto-san at Cycleland -- that's his house brand. I'm not sure what "rebadged" refers to.

In Gabe's blogshop there's a Bridgestone frame for sale which has been re-painted by RAP and it has their new decals on it. That's probably where 'teh interwebs rumour' comes from. Or from some equally bizarre anecdote.

The reason Bridgestones have a cult following is due to the years that Grant Peterson was associated with them. Bridgestones are all very nicely made, but the NJS bikes are a different deal that his road, cross, and mtn bikes.

All of the NJS builders build their own bikes in-house. The only major rebranding (more like contract building) in the premium Japanese framebuilding world that I know of is for randonneur/touring bikes that makers like Toei build for other nameplates. Great bikes though. Anyone know who makes the Rivendell frames for Grant now? B-stone?

For jitensha's points above...it really depends on the used market. Prices now probably stink, but you used to be able to get a beautiful NJS bike with a near new condition BB and headset for cheap. I got a pristine 58cm Bridgestone with Genius tubing for $500ish. That was late spring 07 in Japan.

As for BBs and hubs, I've loved me some loose balls and never had any problems. That said, I wasn't in a suuuuper nasty place. I'd still recommend against getting a pretty NJS bike as a winter daily rider at inflated prices.....recipe for sadness/destruction. And don't you want fenders?

this is a good. listen to this.

Ride whatever makes you happy.
Whatever makes you wanna get out and ride it everyday and look forward to getting on it.
Whether it be a gas pipe conversion or a big money track frame.

Loose ball hubs are just like anything else that isn't explicitly idiot-proofed: meaning that if you do your homework and a little bit of extra maintenance, you don't suffer any drawbacks at all and get all the positives.

For what it's worth on the street, (well maintained) loose ball bottom brackets have less bearing drag and therefore spin easier than sealed bearing bottom brackets. Even hardcore trackies, though, realize that if they're worried about bearing drag, they're probably so fast at this point, they can have someone build a custom bottom bracket just for them.

With regards to the paint jobs of NJS bikes, they are definitely not winter-worthy. The paint is generally painfully thin, as nice as it may look. (I echo the opinion of some others in that I prefer the more understated look of single-color paint and small builder decals.)

For winter, it would probably be better to have something with fenders, clearance for wider tires, and a heavy powdercoat finish.