i hope and think you are just curious. i wonder what youve been doing for 50 years if you are truly "clueless" to why some prefer clips to clipless!

Okay Ken, well your humble opinion is wrong.

P.S. I have clips and straps on one bike and clipless on the other. Which shoe am I wearing again?

To me, my humble opinion seems no more right or wrong than anyone else's.

Doesn't the shoe Jabba Degrassi wears depend on which bike Jabba Degrassi rides?

=====

I rode geared bikes with clips and straps back when we didn't have clipless pedals and shoes.

I wore the straps loose enough to pull my feet out if I had to or wanted to do so.

My son tightens his straps down to the point where he cannot easily or practically pull his feet out or put them back in the straps; but, because he rides a geared bike that coasts, he can easily reach down and tighten and loosen his straps as needed.

I note that Keiren riders use cleats and tighten their straps to the point where they cannot pull their feet out of the straps; and, they do so for purposes of having a full 360 degrees of power in their spin.

So, how many people on this forum ride with cleats and with their straps so tight they can't pull their feet out of their straps?

Your opinion is an absolute one. By saying "those who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality" you are basically saying that there is no valid functional reason to use clips and straps. That is wrong.

This was intended as a response to your suggestion that "if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it," which I took to mean "if you resent my remark, cease to resemble it." Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but my response was intended to convey the fact that I alternate between clips and clipless, and therefore don't fall into either category, and would like to know where I fit into your paradigm.

I do, and I ride fixed. If you have your straps set up correctly (see the Angus in my sig for an example) it's a simple matter of pushing the buckles away with the palm of your hand to loosen them up enough to remove your foot, and pulling up on the straps to tighten them, both of which are quite easy to do while pedaling once you've had a little practice.

If I'm approaching a light that I'm unfamiliar with, or that I know will be too long for me to trackstand through, I just loosen up one foot early so I can pull out if I have to.

I should note that because I don't use slotted cleats with my clips, it is possible to pull out when tightened down, just not very easy.

I work as a messenger and ride with clips and straps... my riding shoes and boots are far more comfortable and warmer than cycling shoes and better for walking.

I have never had a problem getting out of my clips when I needed to.

I ride clips and strap because I have yet to a) save up money for clipless pedals and shoes, b) decide what pedals and shoes I want.

I can however get into my clips and and straps extremely easily and get out of them just as fast.
except the days when my right foot acts up and wont flip into the clip (used to have a drop foot)

I use both from time to time.
Generally, when using my fg for commuting and around town riding, clips and straps. When doing longer rides, I switch to clipless pedals. It only takes a couple minutes to swap them out.

i love clipless.... i havent used straps before just because i got clipless for mountain, then started riding in the city, so i had the expensive part and just stayed with it.

that being said i will wear my sidi's all day and not have a problem, they are byfar my most comfortable pair of shoes (converse = no padding, and then my approach shoes are just too much for daily use, and i wear croc's at work (only because it piss's people off, and i can leave them there and not worry about anyone stealing them))




I actually haven't worn "normal shoes" in about 2 weeks, (dress shoes for a work party) and before that i hadn't worn them since september 8th (kinda odd i know that eh? it was for the Toronto Board Meeting)

I like strapless











bras.

I have thin feet.

I just ride barefoot and use duct-tape to get the benefits of clipless or clips&straps. Then I just buy whatever kind of shoes I need when I get there.

I don't see the "absolute" in "my humble opinion."

I don't even use the word "is."

I think on forums such as this, people use the phrase "in my humble opinion" in order to distinguish their statement from an absolute.

As for the statement made by Jabba Degrassi, "...you are basically saying that there is no valid functional reason to use clips and straps...," I didn't say that; rather, Jabba Degrassi said it.

I said, "in my humble opinion, those who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality."

I don't see the words "no valid functional reason" in my statement, above.

Well, in context, I apologized for making a judgemental statement, and then I said "if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it;" which means, if my characterization of those who ride fixed gear bikes on the street with clips and straps doesn't fit your situation, don't take offense.

And really, why take offense?

Unless, of course, the shoe, or the characterization, fits.

I applaud Jabba Degrassi for his skill on a fixed gear bike.

I have played with the possibility of tightening and loosening straps while riding fixed and, frankly, I can't do it.

Or, perhaps I should say that it seems like way too much trouble to develop this level of skill (and too much extra risk), and to what end?

For the convenience of wearing "normal" shoes?

Well, as I wrote earlier, I have at least three pairs of SPD "clipless" shoes that feel completely normal when walking around, so that I sometimes forget I have them on my feet.

Now, do I understand correctly that those who race fixed gear bikes on the track, as in Keirin racing, use a combination of shoes, pedals and straps that absolutely lock their feet to the pedal, so that they cannot inadvertently disconnect from their pedals?

How do Keirin racers get on and off their bikes?

Does anyone help them?

Do they tighten their straps and loosen them while riding?

And, does anyone else on this thread tighten and loosen their straps while riding, as does Jabba Degrassi?

And, again, as I wrote before, if you ride with clips and straps, but not as some sort of costume, don't take offense.

Why take offense?

Just share your experience, motives and reasons...which could include "I think it looks cool."

Unless, of course, I have touched a sore spot.

In the meantime, consider the question ausfix, the original poster, asked:

"I am familiar with toe straps because that was all that was available decades ago. Recently, I opted to return to the platforms-and-toe-clips-world on my fixie. I don't get it: I vastly prefer my clipless pedals for any rides over a few miles. Is it a fashion thing or is there a convenience factor for messengers walking in office buildings? Or is it something else, like a hunger for a nostalgic time that never was?"

Okay, let's do a quick analysis of what you actually said to put this to rest.

"in my humble opinion, those who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality."

The phrase "in my humble opinion" may as well be excluded from this sentence. It adds nothing to the truth value of what follows, and serves only to establish the fact that you believe yourself to be humble, and that you are voicing your opinion. Even the humblest of opinions can be an absolute one, for instance, "in my humble opinion, pineapples are a vegetable." Despite my humble disposition, and my opinionated nature, I'm not leaving a lot of room for the fruitiness of pineapples.

Moving on, "those who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality." This is an absolute statement. You did not say "some of those" or "many of those", you said "those." You did not say "mostly for fashion reasons and usually not for practicality" or "primarily for fashion reasons and not really for practicality", you said "for fashion reasons and not for practicality." That is an absolute statement. Even if you praface it with "the following is not an absolute statement but," you're only making a logical contradiction, you're not actually changing anything about what follows.

If I start a sentence with "I'm not racist but," and then end that sentence with something really, really racist, the fact that I just said something racist isn't cancelled out by my little disclaimer.

Okay, well, like I said, I can't seem to figure out of the characterization fits or not. I ride clipless and I ride in clips. Where do I fit in?


I don't have sick fixie skillz, I'm not exceptionally dexterous, in fact I'm a bit of a lummox, but I figured it out.

And yes, for the convenience of wearing normal shoes. There are situations in which it is actually preferable to be able to wear normal shoes and carrying extra shoes is not an option. You've apparently yet to encounter such situations, yet they still exist. Incredible.

That's cool. My shoes don't exactly qualify as business-casual though.

Their bikes are locked in an upright position, take a look at the first few seconds of this vid to see what I mean. They also use slotted cleats which you may be familiar with, so that the straps basically lock their shoes into the rear plate of track pedals.

Maybe because you keep referring to clips as something rational people would only break out for Halloween?

It could also include practical reasons.

once you go eggbeaters, you'll never go back.

these are the ones i rock.


and i rock em GOOD :D

http://www.pricepoint.com/images/sty...5%20SIDD55.jpg


honestly i can walk around in the all day. i didnt think they were going to be that comfortable before i bought em... i also read about how sidi's run "slim" in siaing but my feet are considered wide and they rule.

time atac mountain

the stiffness in a clipless shoe and the near 0 power transfer loss... i dont know man... shoes ARE worth it if you put the money/time into find the right pair WHEN you're ready/can afford/want em.

hee hee....this thread is fun! nice to see you again ken. the whole opinions on the internet thing is a double-edged sword, isn't it now? oh, right...you knew that. wrote a bit about it in fact.

but to the topic...do what you like, but it's clipless exclusively for this rider. 90% training rides in lycra and clicky shoes...but never at the coffee shop. 10% commuting / shopping / etc...in recessed-cleat walkable shoes. yeah, i keep a set of street shoes at the office...certainly don't lug them around with me. and yeah, i wear 'special shoes' when i commute...nobody notices but me, and i wouldn't dream of lugging 40lbs of groceries up the climbs to my house without 'em.

clipless is absolutely, unequivocally safer than tight straps and more efficient than any straps. period. wait, don't argue...there isn't one. what more evidence do you need than the fact that *all* competitive road / track / 'cross / mtb riders use them?

please note, this is not to deny the comfort / convenience / possibly fashion involved in being able to wear street shoes with clips. i'll give you that...


wait...did i just agree with ken?

:lol: :thumb:

Seeing as how you didn't just declare that there is no practical reason to ride in clips and straps, I'm gonna say no.

WHO declared "that there is no practical reason to ride in clips and straps?"

WHO wrote about "rational people" and "Halloween?"

Jabba Degrassi fits in with the group of people who choose to take offense where no one intended offense.

He has also chosen to repeatedly attribute words to me I didn't say.

Kinda interesting.

I guess I inadvertently hit the bullseye.

Sorry about that.

I ride clips because it's cheaper and I'm not too much of a serious biker. It doesn't bother me too much, and I'm usually a little ahead of my clipless riding buddy.

I'm a college student and money is important to me. More important than having the best biking equipment around.

(Plus my Onitsukas are pretty fly)

Wow. Thanks for the enlightenment. I though you were going present cold hard facts from the results of scientific evidence, or comprehensive comparison reviews. Thank God you only presented horse $hit! I'm sold. I don't need no more stinking evidence!!!

Because of your wisdom I'm going to bring my one and only pair of shoes to work because I only need the one pair.... they match my one and only shirt and pants that I wear day after day after day. THat right there makes it so worth it. You don't ever need a sense of fashion sense to ROCK THEM!!!

I wonder what kind of pants *all* the competitive road /cross / mtb riders wear to work? I need to ROCK those too.

like i said earlier,

which may or may not be what i, uh, rock.

think the pros don't have science behind them? think again. that's good enough for me.

Geez, you'd think people were arguing over the fate of Git'mo inmates or something. It's hardly a subject worthy of so much emotional outrage.

A wrench in your hand will help adapt your bike to various situations.

I agree.

Take for example Robotronik:

That makes sense to me.

Or consider kingcounty07:

Or Sixty Fiver:

=====

I have one more fixed gear bike in the planning stages (in addition to the two I presently have), and for awhile I had considered doing the "Fixie" look, with clips, no brake and a quill stem.

Presently, though, as it applies to my situation, practicality and efficiency have won out.

I keep my work shoes at work because I wear polished boots at work, and not conventional shoes, and so I have no compelling reason, beyond minimalism (which has its appeal), to ride with clips and straps.

Further, I don't have the athletic ability to tighten and loosen my straps while riding a fixed gear bike, and so my spin would suffer with loose straps.

=====

I've learned a lot from this thread, and my fellow forumites have answered a number of questions that had remained unasked in my head.

I also appreciate Jabba Degrassi for calling me to task on my use of language.

I should have written "in my humble opinion, some of us who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality."