I just ride barefoot and use duct-tape to get the benefits of clipless or clips&straps. Then I just buy whatever kind of shoes I need when I get there.

I don't see the "absolute" in "my humble opinion."

I don't even use the word "is."

I think on forums such as this, people use the phrase "in my humble opinion" in order to distinguish their statement from an absolute.

As for the statement made by Jabba Degrassi, "...you are basically saying that there is no valid functional reason to use clips and straps...," I didn't say that; rather, Jabba Degrassi said it.

I said, "in my humble opinion, those who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality."

I don't see the words "no valid functional reason" in my statement, above.

Well, in context, I apologized for making a judgemental statement, and then I said "if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it;" which means, if my characterization of those who ride fixed gear bikes on the street with clips and straps doesn't fit your situation, don't take offense.

And really, why take offense?

Unless, of course, the shoe, or the characterization, fits.

I applaud Jabba Degrassi for his skill on a fixed gear bike.

I have played with the possibility of tightening and loosening straps while riding fixed and, frankly, I can't do it.

Or, perhaps I should say that it seems like way too much trouble to develop this level of skill (and too much extra risk), and to what end?

For the convenience of wearing "normal" shoes?

Well, as I wrote earlier, I have at least three pairs of SPD "clipless" shoes that feel completely normal when walking around, so that I sometimes forget I have them on my feet.

Now, do I understand correctly that those who race fixed gear bikes on the track, as in Keirin racing, use a combination of shoes, pedals and straps that absolutely lock their feet to the pedal, so that they cannot inadvertently disconnect from their pedals?

How do Keirin racers get on and off their bikes?

Does anyone help them?

Do they tighten their straps and loosen them while riding?

And, does anyone else on this thread tighten and loosen their straps while riding, as does Jabba Degrassi?

And, again, as I wrote before, if you ride with clips and straps, but not as some sort of costume, don't take offense.

Why take offense?

Just share your experience, motives and reasons...which could include "I think it looks cool."

Unless, of course, I have touched a sore spot.

In the meantime, consider the question ausfix, the original poster, asked:

"I am familiar with toe straps because that was all that was available decades ago. Recently, I opted to return to the platforms-and-toe-clips-world on my fixie. I don't get it: I vastly prefer my clipless pedals for any rides over a few miles. Is it a fashion thing or is there a convenience factor for messengers walking in office buildings? Or is it something else, like a hunger for a nostalgic time that never was?"

Okay, let's do a quick analysis of what you actually said to put this to rest.

"in my humble opinion, those who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality."

The phrase "in my humble opinion" may as well be excluded from this sentence. It adds nothing to the truth value of what follows, and serves only to establish the fact that you believe yourself to be humble, and that you are voicing your opinion. Even the humblest of opinions can be an absolute one, for instance, "in my humble opinion, pineapples are a vegetable." Despite my humble disposition, and my opinionated nature, I'm not leaving a lot of room for the fruitiness of pineapples.

Moving on, "those who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality." This is an absolute statement. You did not say "some of those" or "many of those", you said "those." You did not say "mostly for fashion reasons and usually not for practicality" or "primarily for fashion reasons and not really for practicality", you said "for fashion reasons and not for practicality." That is an absolute statement. Even if you praface it with "the following is not an absolute statement but," you're only making a logical contradiction, you're not actually changing anything about what follows.

If I start a sentence with "I'm not racist but," and then end that sentence with something really, really racist, the fact that I just said something racist isn't cancelled out by my little disclaimer.

Okay, well, like I said, I can't seem to figure out of the characterization fits or not. I ride clipless and I ride in clips. Where do I fit in?


I don't have sick fixie skillz, I'm not exceptionally dexterous, in fact I'm a bit of a lummox, but I figured it out.

And yes, for the convenience of wearing normal shoes. There are situations in which it is actually preferable to be able to wear normal shoes and carrying extra shoes is not an option. You've apparently yet to encounter such situations, yet they still exist. Incredible.

That's cool. My shoes don't exactly qualify as business-casual though.

Their bikes are locked in an upright position, take a look at the first few seconds of this vid to see what I mean. They also use slotted cleats which you may be familiar with, so that the straps basically lock their shoes into the rear plate of track pedals.

Maybe because you keep referring to clips as something rational people would only break out for Halloween?

It could also include practical reasons.

once you go eggbeaters, you'll never go back.

these are the ones i rock.


and i rock em GOOD :D

http://www.pricepoint.com/images/sty...5%20SIDD55.jpg


honestly i can walk around in the all day. i didnt think they were going to be that comfortable before i bought em... i also read about how sidi's run "slim" in siaing but my feet are considered wide and they rule.

time atac mountain

the stiffness in a clipless shoe and the near 0 power transfer loss... i dont know man... shoes ARE worth it if you put the money/time into find the right pair WHEN you're ready/can afford/want em.

hee hee....this thread is fun! nice to see you again ken. the whole opinions on the internet thing is a double-edged sword, isn't it now? oh, right...you knew that. wrote a bit about it in fact.

but to the topic...do what you like, but it's clipless exclusively for this rider. 90% training rides in lycra and clicky shoes...but never at the coffee shop. 10% commuting / shopping / etc...in recessed-cleat walkable shoes. yeah, i keep a set of street shoes at the office...certainly don't lug them around with me. and yeah, i wear 'special shoes' when i commute...nobody notices but me, and i wouldn't dream of lugging 40lbs of groceries up the climbs to my house without 'em.

clipless is absolutely, unequivocally safer than tight straps and more efficient than any straps. period. wait, don't argue...there isn't one. what more evidence do you need than the fact that *all* competitive road / track / 'cross / mtb riders use them?

please note, this is not to deny the comfort / convenience / possibly fashion involved in being able to wear street shoes with clips. i'll give you that...


wait...did i just agree with ken?

:lol: :thumb:

Seeing as how you didn't just declare that there is no practical reason to ride in clips and straps, I'm gonna say no.

WHO declared "that there is no practical reason to ride in clips and straps?"

WHO wrote about "rational people" and "Halloween?"

Jabba Degrassi fits in with the group of people who choose to take offense where no one intended offense.

He has also chosen to repeatedly attribute words to me I didn't say.

Kinda interesting.

I guess I inadvertently hit the bullseye.

Sorry about that.

I ride clips because it's cheaper and I'm not too much of a serious biker. It doesn't bother me too much, and I'm usually a little ahead of my clipless riding buddy.

I'm a college student and money is important to me. More important than having the best biking equipment around.

(Plus my Onitsukas are pretty fly)

Wow. Thanks for the enlightenment. I though you were going present cold hard facts from the results of scientific evidence, or comprehensive comparison reviews. Thank God you only presented horse $hit! I'm sold. I don't need no more stinking evidence!!!

Because of your wisdom I'm going to bring my one and only pair of shoes to work because I only need the one pair.... they match my one and only shirt and pants that I wear day after day after day. THat right there makes it so worth it. You don't ever need a sense of fashion sense to ROCK THEM!!!

I wonder what kind of pants *all* the competitive road /cross / mtb riders wear to work? I need to ROCK those too.

like i said earlier,

which may or may not be what i, uh, rock.

think the pros don't have science behind them? think again. that's good enough for me.

Geez, you'd think people were arguing over the fate of Git'mo inmates or something. It's hardly a subject worthy of so much emotional outrage.

A wrench in your hand will help adapt your bike to various situations.

I agree.

Take for example Robotronik:

That makes sense to me.

Or consider kingcounty07:

Or Sixty Fiver:

=====

I have one more fixed gear bike in the planning stages (in addition to the two I presently have), and for awhile I had considered doing the "Fixie" look, with clips, no brake and a quill stem.

Presently, though, as it applies to my situation, practicality and efficiency have won out.

I keep my work shoes at work because I wear polished boots at work, and not conventional shoes, and so I have no compelling reason, beyond minimalism (which has its appeal), to ride with clips and straps.

Further, I don't have the athletic ability to tighten and loosen my straps while riding a fixed gear bike, and so my spin would suffer with loose straps.

=====

I've learned a lot from this thread, and my fellow forumites have answered a number of questions that had remained unasked in my head.

I also appreciate Jabba Degrassi for calling me to task on my use of language.

I should have written "in my humble opinion, some of us who ride with clips and straps do so for fashion reasons and not for practicality."

What offense? What bullseye?

Listen, maybe I come off like I'm deeply hurt or moved or by all this, but I'm not. I'm not deeply anything by any of this. I just happen to always be this caustic and pedantic, thank you very much.

At least you finally recognized why what you said was an absolute statement. You could even drop the "in my humble opinion" bit, as "some of us" or "some of those" is more than sufficient to keep nitpicking little hair-splitters like myself off your back.

I have played around on the internet since before browsers existed.

From the beginning I have participated on numerous forums, and I moderate a few forums, as well.

I cannot remember a time in which everyone did not understand what "In My Humble Opinion" (IMHO) meant, until now.

Actually, though, I think Jabba Degrassi understands very well what IMHO means and has always meant, despite the pseudo-meaning he feigned in his attempt to make a nonexistant point.

In the unlikely probability that Jabba Degrassi somehow does not know what IMHO means, let me share a little common knowledge with him:

IMHO means with respect for my fellow forumites, I do not place my opinion above theirs, and nor do I claim the following as fact.

Many people who spend time in these types of forums use Culturally-Standardized Phrases such as In My Humble Opinion precisely in order to avoid the type of embarrassing conversation that has recently taken place between me and Jabba Degrassi.

I have only persisted in this as long as I have because I have an interest in the type of behavior demonstrated by Jabba Degrassi.

I have in the past behaved in exactly the same manner as has Jabba Degrassi, and since I don't want to repeat this behavior in my own private future, I pay attention to other people when they do it in order to become more familiar with the pattern.

I work in a field that has a very high accident rate (higher than commercial fishermen), and all of us in my profession study the behavior of those who have had accidents in order to recognize the same patterns when they occur in our own lives.

But I see that even now I have repeated Jabba Degrassi's pattern in this post.

Fun, eh?

Oh, and the Bullseye?

It means I hit Jabba Degrassi with my Humble Opinion, even though I didn't aim at him.

Like I said, sorry about that.

messengering, you spend about half your day not on your bike. so i've always worn comfortable shoes & tradition clips & straps pedals... i think that clipless is a great idea for long rides that don't involve as much of the stop & start of urban riding.

What pattern? Stop playing junior psychologist on the internet. There's exactly one person who's impressed by all your posturing, and you're it.

You were wrong, get over it. Again, if I say something along the lines of "I'm not racist but blah blah blah rhymes with bigger," I'm still being racist. If I say "In my humble opinion the earth is flat, evolution is a lie, and flu shots are just a government plot to steal our DNA and absolutely everybody who thinks otherwise is a semi-literate imbecile, without exception," I am not magically shielded from criticism or rebuttal by my little disclaimer.

My statement is still an absolute one, despite the fact that it''s just my oh-so humble opinion. My opinion, in this case, is an absolute one. It is an opinion which makes no room for the dissenting opinions of others, or errors, or exceptions.

And again, you're wrong when you say "in my humble opinion" also means "nor do I claim the following as fact." You're over-stepping the bounds of those humble little words. One could easily say "In my humble opinion, Claim A is a fact," without making any logical contradictions. Okay, so you're humble, that's not really relevant, but that in no way contradicts the rest of the sentence. And this is your opinion. You've formed an opinion about Claim A, and based on your experience, you personally believe Claim A is a fact. That is a valid statement. Congratulations!

The problem here is that you have failed to grasp the point I am making. Frankly, I've wasted enough time trying to explain this to you.

Whoever said that clipless shoes/pedals don't provide any advantage over clips has clearly never ridden with clipless pedals. I was skeptical at first that a stiff carbon fiber sole could give me more power in my pedalstroke until I tried them. Having that stiff sole in a clipless bike specific shoe provides wayyy more support than the best set of clips and pedals can. No foot flex = 100% power transfer from the rest of your legs movement.

That said, I ride clipless as well as clipped, as well as platforms. It all depends on the bike riding style. Clipless for road biking and long distance stuff, clipped for fixed, and platforms for dirtjumping.

jabba 3 ken 0

epic yawn.

ken is wrong. not an opinion.

so, eggbeater sl + sidi dominators are a good combo?

its all an opinion thing and there is no right answer. i commute (have no car) on my fixie but i also train for races on it. i ride clipless on 4/6 of my bikes (bmx clipless just isnt how its done). anyway, clipless systems are much better for efficiency, comfort blah blah blah, but when it comes down to it its a pain in the ***** to have to bring an extra pair of shoes with you everywhere you go. hell, its also a pain in the ass to walk around a store clunken with every step. i swear by clipless for my performance needs but for daily riding and a few weekly training rides, some nice straps (powergrips) do a good job. also, im with you on the brooks thing. i dont own one, but i have ridden some nicely broken in ones, and my selle italia flite (s) would kick a brooks ***** any day of the week.

I've taken clipless pedals off of half a dozen of my (and my son's) bikes in the last year. I love being able to get off the bike and walk when I want/need to. We only have two bikes with clipless pedals - our hardcore road bikes for the hills.

Cuz.....

no 2nd pair of shoes....

can't skid w/ confidence w/ clipless...

yes... it does look cool.

Of those who ride with clips and straps, how tight do you adjust the straps?

Do you leave them the same tightness/looseness all the time and slip your foot in and out of them, or do you tighten and loosen them while riding?

Back in the days when I rode geared bikes with clips and straps I adusted the straps to where I could slip my foot in and out, and I left the straps at that adjustment all the time.

My son, as I have written earlier, rides his geared bike with clips and straps and adjusts them while riding.

I'd like to know how fixed gear riders deal with straps.

I have no doubt that different riders use different strategies.

I keep them at an acceptable tightness so I can hop on and hop off with ease, but I tighten if I'm going to be riding for a distance, say more than one or two miles. toshi straps are easy to tighten and loosen once you get the hang of it. Depends on the riding situation and I depend on my bicycle 100% for transportation in the city.

Size 14 feet here, which made it real hard to find shoes when I was thinking of taking the clipless plunge. After an almost fruitless search that only came up with $150 shoes (then add in the cost of new pedals), I came to the realization that a $50 pedals/clips/straps set-up with some flat soled utilitarian shoes meet my needs. I'm comfortable with them, comfortable riding with them, and I consider them the best value for my dollar and my riding needs.

Clipless of clips; the proper pedals are whatever gets you in the saddle and crankin out some miles . . . .