gkelley

The frames were definitely used quite well by the racers but aren't necessarily destroyed. When the frames have been involved in a crash from my understanding atleast the bikes will be taken off the track and placed for sale or whatever. So

adriano 

excuse you. if its not njs, its not even worth discussing.

Darwin401k

Its silly to assume that ALL frames are heavily raced and abused by pros. Some are; some could have just been owned by keirin enthusiasts who babied the **** out of their NJS bike. Who the hell really knows unless you speak with the original owner; or if there's a NJS frame version of Carfax around . It is all personal preference and ridiculous to argue about what is worth what and such.

Look at what this Colnago just ended for on ebay:
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=170309958920

Mikeymk1

^ gorgeous!!!!

Geordi Laforge

for a thousand dollar frame, you should know the history of the frame. a good number of the frames up on the various njs blogs have been used and retired. for a grand, I wouldnt purchase a dented and scratched frame because I am interested in value and quality and bang for my buck.

and these frames are really not that special. and the pricing is simply inflated.

so there goes your rant about value purchasing...

if I had a grand to spend, I'd order a new, custom frame. that's real value.

Geordi Laforge

and, no, that colnago is straight up jack ass.

Darwin401k

In reality, inflation on these types of frames does suck since the fixed gear scene has blown out of proportion. Can't really do anything since there will always be people buying these frames regardless. Seems like you assume ALL frames have been heavily abused and damaged. What about those with just a few scratches here and there? I just want one to add to my list that really appeals to me and is in great condition. What is so bad about that?

The "custom" Panasonics are very nice indeed and is brand new compared to some used frames on various blogs. The "custom" part is just your choice of paint and decals offered from their selection. If it were indeed custom that is measured to your specific size with your choice of frame options, colors, and what not then yes; that would defintely blow those beat up frames out of the water. For a full custom frame measured for my size and everything, I would have to expect to pay at least about $1,500 for one.

No offense to those offering the Panasonics, I am not saying anything negative about those frames at all. They did not appeal to me as much as the nicer ones on the blogs for just a hair cheaper. Hell I'm looking to get one in white with gold decals in the future to come.

deathhare

I promise you that every frame theyre selling HAS been babied. It was babied right up to the day it was crashed at 45mph during a race.

Of all the used frames being sold I would guess that 90% of them have been involved in a crash and therefore retired. But just because it was in a crash doesnt mean it was damaged...but just because there is no visible damage doesnt mean damage doesnt exist. That being said, I would ride a crashed frame. In fact I have ridden them a lot. I rode a dented Makino for about 2 years with no issues. At this point I am riding a retired Nagasawa that I know nothing about its history. I am ok with this because I bought the frame for next to nothing and in excellent visible condition.
Crashed frames are generally just fine but I wouldnt pay 1000 bucks for one.

Unless its something rare and amazing and no longer in production why pay that much?

Darwin401k

Excellent point mano. I am going to stick with my conversion for now and wait for the market to eventually die down; hopefully sooner.

Geordi Laforge

nothing wrong with the choice of purchasing a banged up frame just because it's a keirin frame, just silly to pretend it's some value purchase.

If I were to go custom with a budget of around a grand, I'd personally go with mercian or bob jackson or witcomb.

Catnap 

spending more than $500-600 on a used Keirin frame is dumb unless it's particularly rare or has some historical significance.

helloamerican

so, what you're saying is.... those non-structural purely aesthetic dents affect the ride? performance? how do you figure? those are top of the line frames put together by bicycle artisans... i'm really not understanding how you can trivialize that over what, some mass production capo or something? i can understand if they've been in a crash, but as previously stated a crashed frame doesn't mean a broken bike.

you're basically telling people to not buy used, which is idiotic.

Geordi Laforge

all I'm saying is paying a thousand bucks for a banged up frame is dumb when one can purchase a new custom frame of the same original build quality (or higher) for the same amount. I guess if you're really into kierin bikes and want to do a NJS project, that's cool. But let's not pretend like it's a great investment or a value purchase like the original poster said.

who said anything about capos?

and I wouldnt feel comfortable about spending serious cash on a crashed frame unless I inspect the fork and frame myself. of course, this is impossible with these njs blogs. you have to grant them alot of faith in their integrity regarding their descriptions and ability to spot potential structural problems.

like I said before, I'd much rather spend that $1k on a custom mercian or similar -- but that might just be me.

Darwin401k

To each his own.. Funny you actually are still debating this and practically mentioning "banged up", "beat", "scratched", "dented", etc in every post. WE GET THE POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO COME ACROSS

Let's just turn this into a "post the beat up keirin frame you want; pretending the cost wasn't as much" thread. You already know which one I like..

Geordi Laforge

obviously, helloamerican didnt. hence my reply.

helloamerican

it's true, it's pointless. all i have to say then is you all are missing out.

Darwin401k

Beautiful

deathhare

How much is it?

Darwin401k

Enough to buy 6 Kilo TT frames

IllSpecialist

$1280....

I just think it's funny. Paint isn't even dry on his conversion yet and the OP thinks he needs $1300 Keirin frame.

I can guarantee you couldn't feel the difference between a TT and an NJS frame.

helloamerican

lol

deathhare

I think he was referring to the OP...and with that in mind, its probably true.

Darwin401k

You guys take this **** way to seriously. Oh no! A newbie was asking about the keirin frame, let's bash him since he is just has a conversion so he is definitely not worthy enough to inquire about one unlike the elite among us!

Funny how earlier in the thread, people were referring me to deathhare's Panasonic frames. Then I reject thus in turn the flame war began.

This reassures me that many FG people are lame and too caught up in their own scene/BS.

peabodypride

No one's bashing you because you have a conversion. It's just a little cockeyed that you're going on about "buy nice or buy twice" and how you're all tits and hooters for Japanese engineering but you seem just dandy with your conversion.

I should add that I actually really like your bike. It's clean and looks rad. I hope the paint doesn't chip.

Dave Hickey

I've bought two frames and some components from Gabe.

My latest purchase was a well worn, neglected 3Rensho..

I bought it with the intention of restoring it.. total restored cost was less than $1000...