Hi,

I'm currently building a new rear wheel using a flip-flop (fixed-fixed) hub. It occurred to me that it probably should be laced differently than a standard 3-cross if the "trailing spokes face back" mantra is to hold true.

i.e. when I flip the wheel I want the trailing spokes to always be in tension when the bike is going forwards.

This raises an interesting question: Where does the 1st spoke on the 2nd side go?

Pards.

Don't overthink it.

https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#lacing

Since flip/flops have no dish, it is less of a concern. Further, a fixed gear has "reverse" drive so both forward and trailing spokes will switch roles. Don't worry about it.

There is nothing special that needs to be done when lacing a flipflop hub. Once the wheel is built, the spoke pattern is symmetrical. A 3-cross spoke pattern will have all spokes in equal tension, no matter what the wheel orientation is.

+1
I've been beating up on my 32h 3 cross wheel for 5 months, repeated flips from fix to SS, no problems. Built it myself using the Sheldon Brown link posted above, and I've only needed to true it once after everything settled. It's been solid ever since.

Load the inner and outer spokes the same direction, inner vs outer for drive spokes isn't that critical, same direction is.

For what it's worth, I found out how to do this. Basically after lacing the first half of the first side by dropping the spokes through the hub, you lace first half of the flip side by pulling the spokes. Everything else is the same.

When you're done both the flip and the flop sides of the hub will have the trailing spokes on the inside of the hub.

Why? All spokes are going to be in tension regardless.

You're missing the point. I want to have the trailing spokes on the drive-side to always be inside spokes.

Why? The wheel doesn't care which spokes are laced on the inside or on the outside.

I've built a few thousand wheels, I always load the inner and outer spokes the same direction. Ther's been many arguements over the years about which way is better, consensus is it's not so important the direction of the load spokes as they be the same (inners the same, outers the same).

That is true when the wheel is static, held in the air by it's axle. When the wheel is actully used, the spoke tension will change depending on what the wheel is doing. The spokes are having their tension changed under dynamic loads; braking, pedalling, coasting, supporting weight as the wheel rotates.

Yes. Now explain what real difference there would be between a spoke was laced on inside of a hub vs. one that is laced on the outside.

The only difference I can think of is one of lateral stability, however we are talking about fractions of a degree. Also, the next spoke in line should compensate for any weakness since it would be laced on the other side of the flange.

Think about a wheel being driven from the drive side only, the load is not symetrical, the wheel is twisting, the rim is distorting. Symetrical spoke loading helps counteract that un-equal dynamic tension.

Aren't we arguing the same point?

I didn't know we were arguing, sorry, I forget about the internet...I was just trying to explain what the thinking is behind symetrical spoke loading. You'll find every experinced wheel builder does it, maybe we're just following an old wives tale, I've always felt there was merit in the concept.

I don't see any connection between that and the original question, but if you want to lace in the mirror-image pattern, then just do it.

It doesn't ****ing matter if you're going to be flipping the wheel. Lace it like you would as if the wheel wasn't a flip flop and it'll be fine.

Radial.

that way both sides suck equally