Batavus

First off, I'm sure this has been discussed at length before, but I don't care.


I am looking to build a lightweight wheelset that won't cost me an arm and a leg for my go-fast Fort alu track bike, which is currently running a blinged out, but not especially lightweight Phil Wood-DeepV wheelset. This combo is heavy and I can really feel the rotational weight when accelerating/climbing. Intended for road use, so I am looking for wheels that can take some beating.

I did some googling and found that most low spoke count wheelsets on the market (Mavic Ellipse, C-C Volos etc) come in at the 2000 gms mark. the cheapest I could find was 370 euros for the Ellipse set.

After some math, I figured that if I use DT Swiss RR 1.1 rims, DT revolution spokes/brass nipples, a 28 hole front road hub, a 28 hole low flange rear track hub (Campagnolo, Shimano, Miche they all come in at the 300 gram mark), I could make a wheelset that weighs in at about 1650 grammes for about the same price as the Mavic Ellipses!

Could shave off some weight in the form of, let's say, a Tune Mig 70 front hub and alu nipples, but that will come at a premium (cost for the hub and durability in the case of nipples).

I never thought that I would be able to 'beat' a pre-built wheelset, both in cost and weight, so there is likely something wrong with my math :-)

Does anyone have further suggestions as far as a rear track hub that is even lighter, or rims that are lighter without going into carbon rims, ridiculous prices etc? Has anyone tried and succeeded in building a wheelset similar to this? Thank you in advance for your input!

Waychel

Buy a Campagnolo Proton front road wheel for $80ish. Then lace a Dimension hub (they have hollow axles) or a low-flange Miche to an Open Pro or a Niobium 270 using DT Revloution spokes and aluminum nipples.

I believe the lightest easily available track hubs are American Classic.

I run a Proton up front and an American Classic 420 track wheel in the back--a sub 1550g wheelset.

If I really wanted to lighten up for cheap, I'd get a Neuvation front wheel or something.

Also, Ellipses are not that light. Look into the AC 420 track wheels if you want a light factory track wheelset.

CliftonGK1

The only help I can offer is that there has to be a lighter rim out there than the RR1.1

I use the 32h ones on my brevet bike (465g/ea). The 28h are OK at 415g (IIRC for the single eyelet version), but there are lighter rims out there.
OTOH, depending on your application, anything lighter and you may be sacrificing strength; and the RR1.1 is a rim you can beat the snot out of.

Batavus

Thanks for the suggestions. I was thinking of a pre-built, low spoke count front road wheel. It seems like the easiest option.

Will be re-thinking this project heavily before I pour money into it.

Geordi Laforge

Is carbon an option? Perhaps not if you're on a budget.

And according to competitive cyclist, the 2009 RR 1.1 is 454 grams & the 2009 Open Pro is 440 grams (supposedly these are actual weights not manufacturers' weights).

You might want to consider your tires as well. A lightweight but high TPI clincher would help.

What is your application for this wheelset?

Geordi Laforge

...and do you ride a batavus?

Nightdiver

FYI - AC rear track hubs are 180 grams.

Batavus

Geordi, I also ride a batavus fixed conversion (my very first) with Shimano dynohub, Moustache bars and fenders! Do you also have one?

I didn't know the 1.1 is 454 when 415 was claimed (at least for the 28 hole,single wall variety) I have read nothing but good things about the Open Pro. It is a massive 140 grammes lighter than a Deep V and I hear they can take abuse.

I am already running Schwalbe Ultremo's ( not the R version) at 190 gms a piece and they are holding up pretty well. I skidded the rear once or twice and decided it wasn't worth wearing away a top dollar tire that fast! I was also thinking of using latex tubes as they are generally 50 % lighter than normal ones. The thing is, I am ususally anything but a weightweeny, just look at the deep V/ Phil combo, but I think if you are going to save weight, you should go all the way and try to save on every component (within budget of course).

idiq

Campagnolo Victory Crono to A/C hubs, and DT Swiss 14/15 spokes. They'll also be tubs.

gospastic

Regarding the 1.1s, the double eyelet versions are ~450g, the single eyelet versions are ~415g. My double eyelet 1.1s came in at 464g each, almost exactly as claimed.

Batavus

I think your option is the best one. The proton front is nice and light and can be bought separately for cheap indeed. It also saves me a wheelbuild. Do you ride tarck with this wheelset or also on the road?

jhaber

I think the protons might not have the nipples exposed (that's what she said) and therefore will be harder to true. Something to think about.

Batavus

I didn't think of that, though that would be strange, no way to true them, thanks though!

itsIRIEpat

Wait, wouldn't you just have to take off the tire and tube to true?

Also you will gain an invaluable amount of experiance from building your own wheelset.

Hirohsima

Check the Group Buy sub-forum. There is a group buy on hubs going on now. The road front hub, with various drillings, is 76 grams. 76g.

Price: $29+ ship.

https://www.bikeforums.net/group-buy/539583-novatec-hubs-group-buy.html

That should keep your budget down and the weight off.

jhaber

^^^

that + an ird cadence rim (390 grams, approx $45) + some double butted spokes = light and cheap front wheel (approx 660 grams? and $100 bucks )

mihlbach

Combine a pair of IRD aero 30mm rims with the rear track hub of your choice (preferably 24-28h) and any reasonably lightweight front road hub (20-24h), with a bolt-on skewer for the front hub. Use decent butted or butted and bladed spokes with aluminum nips in front and brass in the rear. Radially lace the front, 2x in the rear.

You will easily be able to get it under 1600 grams for less than the cost of ellipses, probably closer to 1500 gms. You could shave off an additional 140 gms with IRD cadence rims, but you'll have less aero wheels.

My own wheels are built with Niobium 30 rims, formula rear track hub (28h), formula front road hub (RB-68) (24h) with Sapim CX Ray spokes. The build came out to 1550gms, cost about $335 and turned out to be a very nice, stiff, responsive wheelset, much better than any complete wheelset I could buy for the same price.
Good luck!

Waychel

I ride this wheelset on the road. I weigh over 200 pounds and ride on crappy pavement, and they've held up. Mihlbach has really good advice, too, but Dimension hubs should be lighter than Formulas and just as cheap.

There are a lot of really, really light road hubs--AC Micro 58, Speedcific Perception, White Industries H2, etc. And you should really look into the IRD/KinLin Niobium rims.

jhaber

Mihlbach, why choose aero over weight on a bike that will be ridden on the road?

mihlbach

Deep rims result in stronger, stiffer, and more aero wheels. They also allow you to use fewer spokes, which, also improves aerodynamics. The penalty is a few extra grams, but unless you are climbing mountains, the benefits generally outweight the costs. Many good all-purpose road wheelsets use 23-40mm deep rims, resulting in a semi-aero and reasonably light wheelset. If you want to use a track bike for fast road riding, I would buid something similar, the only real difference being the rear track hub. In my opinion, 27-30mm is the sweet spot for aluminum road rims.

mihlbach

The KinLin/IRD rims are the lightest per depth rims that I know of. They are reasonably priced and have excellent reputations. I have built two wheelsets with the 30mm model . The rims are very very close to the claimed weight, and, unlike some rims I have worked with, allow you to achieve a very true wheel with high and even tension. I would stay away from them if you intend to do abusive trick riding, but for fast road riding, they really are hard to beat.

xg43x

kinlin xr-200 niobium rims weigh 390
kinlin xr-270 niobium rims weigh 430

Waychel

I have heard not-so-great things about the non-deep section niobium rims, but I've heard a lot of greats things about the 270s and 300s.

Batavus

Ok, this is where it gets confusing, too many options.

I don't have a scale, but i calculated that my Phil Wood/Deep V 36 hole wheels weigh around 2300 grms.

I figure that if I use the AC rear and the group buy Novatec front (an absolute steal at 30 $, compare that to a Tune Mig 70, also 75 gms at 120-130$!), Dt RR 1.1 rims and DT competition spokes/brass nips, I can get the weight just under 1500 grms for a total of about 220/230 euros.

That is not bad at all! If I go with the Campagnolo Proton front, the weight will be almost the same, but overall price will drop to about 200 euros, But that is taking into account I don't have to pay for spokes at the shop I work at, I pay with overtime for parts at discount. I may even be able to get the rims through the shop, but I don't think I could get the AC rear, certainly not the Novatech front.

If I trade the 100grms extra of a Dimension rear hub for the low cost, I wouldgo cheaper still, but I think I have weight weeny fever now, I so want to stay below 1500grms! Hmmm, so many options....

I will stay away from DT revolution and alu nips, because of durability issues, I just don't like the idea.

Thank you all for sharing experiences and information!

mihlbach

Weight weenyism is addictive, you just have to draw the line somewhere. Will you feel the difference between 2300 gms and 1500 grams....yes? Will the additional 100 gms of the Dimension hub make any real difference...no, but if it makes you happier and you can afford it why not.

Aluminum nips are fine except on the rear drive side. If the back hub is a flip flop you'll want all brass back there, but I wouldn't hesitate to use them on the front wheel. They will save you a little weight where it counts, near the outer diameter of the wheel.

Have fun with your new wheels!