what frame should i order, the cinelli vigorelli or the brooklyn gansta. i know theyre totally different. i want a bike that i can beat up a little but still be able to keep up with my friends. also what size frame should i get. im about 5'8

if you want something rugged that you can beat up on, why bother considering a thin-walled aluminum bike? whether or not you can keep up with your friends is a matter of the engine (you), not the frame.

steel is real!

+10000
i ride a fully heat treated 100% CR-MO frame and i beat the crap out of it. it has yet to show any sort of real damage

did you really have to make 2 threads about this same topic?

Sorry about that. I'm new to forums

you can get entire bikes with decent components for the price of those frames.