if you stress relieve and retention a machine built wheel doesn't it become hand built? i mean, anybody can lace a wheel. its tensioning it that is a skill.

Fix that chain tension, stat! ;)

Yes, that is correct. The benefit of handbuilt wheels is the ability to pick and choose the exact rim, hub, spokes, nipples, spoke count, and lacing pattern that are suited to you and your riding style. The fact that the wheel was assembled by man or machine makes no difference, as long it is correctly stress relieved and tensioned. It is much easier for a human to do this than a machine, which is why it is always a good thing to have someone look over and adjust any factory-built wheelset regardless of how it may have been assembled. Wheels are very similar to stringed instruments in that the proper tension of the spokes/strings is critical to optimal performance...would you play a guitar out of the box without tuning it first? I think not.

i agree. i just wanted to prove a point. you guys were both right. macine built wheels are not as good as hand built. thats why you have a pro "fix" machine built wheels.

You are incorrectly assuming that all hand built wheels are built with the same uniform high standards...they are not. Its possible for the builder to do a ****ty job. Unless you ARE the builder this is a variable you can't necessarily control for. Just because some hand built wheels are better than machine built wheels does not mean that all hand built wheels are better. I've seen lots of handbuilt wheels that were built more poorly than the cheapest machine built specimens. Wheelbuilding does not require a magic skill...its actually pretty easy. What it does require is the patience and willingness to do it right. For this reason, not all LBSs have good trustworthy wheel guys. Thats why learning to build your own is an incredibly valuable skill because at that point it matters not how your wheel was built..you can simply take matters into your own hands and see that it gets done correctly either by making adjustments to prebuilts or building them entirely yourself.

i never assumed that. i only assumed that people are smart enough to check the reputation of a wheel builder.

i ordered mine from excel, they know how. i dont

i would imagine they're heavy with crap bearings, but you can probably find some better cartridge units to throw in if they're cartridge.

guess i just don't see the point. paid 40 bucks for formula hubs, i think 20 for velocity aeroheads, and 60 bucks for spokes and nipples. it takes some patience and searching and building wheels yourself, but it's a great wheelset for $120.

Update?
 

Any comments about these AeroMax wheels from someone who has bought and used them?

Running these in red/black and have about 3000 miles in 5 mos. They're fine. For a starter set I'd recommend them. No retruings so far.

Thanks for tip, think I'm gonna buy some--for a starter set.

I found them to be too heavy for my taste but will do for a stater set. Hell, they're a great bargain for anyone looking for a inexpensive set.
I'm not into deep rims.

I have the AeroMax rims
 

I just bought a 2010 Jamis Supernova cyclocross bike with AeroMax wheels for $800 cash. 56cm frame .. fits great.
It looks like new.

This bike was a principally a Sunny day commuter bike used with a lot of hills. The wheels had Rubena Flash tires 32-622 (heavy and cheap). These wheels are true and spin nicely.

This bike is set up with SRAM APEX group...50x34 and 11-32 but cheap brakes = Avid Cants. and Tioga (super cheap pedals). {{Not to be confused with the setup of the Jamis Supernova 2011 for MSRP $2700**** ... This frame is supposedly an MSRP $1200 frame.

I have a set of handbuilt wheels on my 1985 Trek 720 ... MaxiCar 40 hole tourist hubs (127mm spacing) with bolted axles and (cross 3 spoking tied and soldered) Velocity Dyads with an IRD Freewheel (7 speed 13-32).... Halfstep granny 48-44-28

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I think a big difference in wheels that are of cheaper components shows up with bad weather and potholes and obviously the wheel building is important ...

My next move is to put some Vittoria Rando Hyper tires on this Jamis 35c x 700 ... the Rubena Flash are utilitarian.

In short these aeroMax wheels on Amazon or ebay are going new for around $100 .... seems like a deal from what I've seen so far .... for general purpose training etc.