If you were to get a set of Sun M13s, would you go for 32 or 36 spokes? Do 4 spokes really make that much of a difference?

They will make it 4 spokes stronger and your choice of hubs will be narrowed slightly. I would get the 32h rims just for the hub selection.

My reason for asking is that I put a set of M13s/Formulas from VeloMine on my Xmas list (my wife rules) and didn't realize they came built up both ways. I was thinking 32 as well.

I see. Velo Mine wheels are hand built, correct? If that's true I'm pretty sure 32 will be plenty enough. I have handbuilt Velocity rims (Fusion front, radial laced/DeepV rear, 3x) that take a 220-lb man bombing off of curbs all the time, and have not been touched in any way since they were bought in February. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Sun rims also known for being sturdy?

If you can have it either way, with no consequence, I'd do the 36. Yeah, it's only 4 spokes stronger, but sometimes that's just enough.

When you start getting into 40 and up, then hub and rim selection is so limited there is a major disadvantage.

They are. That's why I wasn't sure which way to go (or if would even really matter all that much). My scale teeters between 190-200 lbs and while the roads aren't necessarily bad in the little beach town I reside in, I definitely like my wheels to be as strong as they can be.

At least the most stressful thing in my life at the moment is deciding whether or not I really need those four spokes...

Well if it's a matter of the roads I'd just get some 25 or 28c tires with a high TPI casing. Smoove sailing for sure.

32 is penty strong enough and weight really wont manner so in the end i think it comes down to looks.

3x front, stick to 32

radial front, go 36

real world there wont be any other differeance...

those 4 spokes won't matter for you. I rode a 28 rear wheel for a long time at 150lbs doing tricks and all that with no issues. The way wheels are built these days, and with spokes being stronger than ever, you can ride less of em just fine.
I have never heard of somebody riding a 16 spoke campy shamal having an issue.

Pick what hub you want then snag the rim that matches.

If the hub comes in either drilling- go with the 36 holes- if you ever go to sell the bike you can make note of how super-ultra-mega strong the wheels are because of the extra spokes.

It's not a matter of picking hubs...they come built up with Formulas. I...I mean Santa Claus...is going with 36. I know strength-wise there really won't be much difference. I'm building up a porteur-inspired bike and think the 36s will look pretty classic.

+1 for the classic look. how will they be laced?

Nothing fancy. Standard 3X works fine for me.

Any reason you chose the M13's vs the (seemingly) more popular CR-18's?

"I definitely like my wheels to be as strong as they can be"

That says 36 right there. I'm just waiting to order my spokes for my Ambrosio Excellights to IRO hubs. I'm only 145-155lbs, but then I carry a laptop everyday and other crap, and on city streets..... unless making a race wheel I'll go with a 36 every time.

I was torn on that too, but figure I'll go with the M13s because I prefer 23-25mm tires and they're a few mm thinner than CR18s. Is that dumb? Would I be better off with CR18s?

what spokes are you using? spokes can make or break the wheels. no matter how great hubs or rims you have, bad spokes will give you bad wheels.

That's ridiculous. Spokes are cold formed wires, nothing more. Sure, a crappy spoke may break at the J-bend under extreme circumstances, but assuming they're tensioned right, a "bad" spoke does not equate to a bad wheel.

I think you're confused with bladed, butted, dbl butted, etc.

OP, if you have the option of a 3x 36h setup, go for it. The nominal weight difference isn't really comparable to the increase in strength you'll get.

Right on Yo! Thanks. I'm not too concerned with weight here so yeah, 36 is where I'm headed. Now I'm busy rethinking CR18s over M13s!

I think M13's should be perfectly fine for your build. I'm just partial to the CR-18's because I'm a fatty so I like bigger tires (28mm minimum).

Definitely 36 if it's going to be a load carrying bike.

Im running a Sun CR18 rim, DT Champion 2.0 spokes, formula hubs laced 3X with 36h drilling. They are not that heavy and feel super solid. Id say get the 36h.

What size tires are you running on those Deshi? Will CR18s work with 23s?

It won't be so much heavy load-carrying, but have a bit of classic porteur style.

I believe you _can_ run 23's but if you are purchasing new tires anyway you might stick with 25's or greater. The CR-18's internal diameter is 17.5mm so they were intended for use with wider tires.