Yes, I've seen that frame. The other thread about the frame, that was one of the features that impressed me about that particular frame. But a majority of frames don't have that elegant feature built in. And I'm sure over the lifetime of the frame, it could have an issue down the road that requires more of a design like this one to replace it ? I see a few design flaws there. One, it looks easy to get at on a bare frame, but working over the chain stays it's not as accessible as from the open and rear of the track ends. Another, it uses hex heads, so can those be stripped out, even the screw or however way that threaded frame end is designed. Nothing's perfect, so for $ 8.95 delivered what I'm getting will do just fine for the lifespan of a Vilano. Roadworthy, inexpensive transportation is the goal here, This bike is perfect in that it flies in under the radar. Plenty of other and more expensive bikes to be stolen before it.

Let's not get carried away here with this talk of replacing perfectly good frames. Let's not throw the baby out after giving it a bath just because the bath water is dirty.

Yeah, I thought about that too, but the bike came assembled that way, that is chain tensioners on the inside and used as a shim/spacer to compensate for chain line and wheel centering. The axle nuts are the type that have the rough mating surface to the frame so it shouldn't move. And I did try to put them on the outside and the fact that the threaded portion extended well beyond the track ends and whatever bend in them caused even more issues. It appears inside is where it functions better.

As you feel the chain tensioner is better served on the outside, do you think the new parts should be oriented in that manner, because the way it's been going together and coming apart, inside still looks like a better fit. When I get the parts, I figure I'll try them either way and see which functions better, but I think I still need the shim/spacer function with this. I agree the frame isn't a Pake or better, it's a hi ten Vilano, I knew that going into the purchase, so it is what it is in that regard. I think that with a higher quality chain tensioner and design this will resolve the issue and perform quite well for the useful life of this bike. I have a feeling after this fix, I will have a bike that will last several years without issue under normal operation and routine care and maintenance. For an upgrade that cost $ 8.95 delivered I can't expect any higher level of satisfaction for this particular under $ 300 bike ? Just me, but I think the BD bikes would be better served to have these included ? But that's my opinion, others may not hold that.

All, I do appreciate all the assistance and concern that has been expressed, when it's done, I'll post pics and you guys can determine if something like this will work better for your bike(s) ? I just wanted to get it put together so that when I do ride it, the potential for a failure down the road/on the road doesn't leave me stranded somewhere.

just learn how to properly tension your chain and you will never need mechanical assistance.

First, just because the bike came assembled that way from the factory, doesn't mean they did it right. You might as well have gotten it assembled from Wallymart.

Second, part of your problem is those cheap axle nuts that lack built in floating washers. Its basically impossible to tighten those nuts w/o affecting the axle position and chain adjustment. So, get yourself a decent pair of rear axle nuts.

Third, you don't really need axle adjusters / tug nuts. They're just a convenience. I manage just fine to repeatedly adjust the chain on my track racing bikes without any such devices. I did get a Surly tugnut for one of my steel road FG bikes (Kilo WT), but more to just dress it up and cover up all the gouges in the dropout paint from changing the axle position. The main purpose of a tugnut is to "tug" to prevent accidental axle slippage under load, and they are totally unnecessary if the axle nut on the pulling side is sufficiently tight.

The only mechanical assistance I've required on the bike is a lateral and radial wheel truing. With these new parts I will be perfectly able to adjust and align the chain and it's tension. I don't have a wheel truing device and I didn't want to fabricate my own. Both wheels trued up were $ 12, even the bike tech/mechanic could not tension the chain properly with the chain tensioner(s) provided with this bike in the condition they were in. I don't feel as though I'm any less of a mechanic for failing with that inferior grade hardware. Adjusting the chain tension is hardly the most complex mechanical repair I've ever done. I've rebuilt 4, 6 & 8 cylinder auto engines, not to mention rebuilt 12A rotary engines that power Mazda RX7's.

I think that I will continue to pursue this as appropriate. I've had the rear wheel off several times for one reason or another and the chain tensioners simply weren't designed to do it that many times, the new ones seem like a longer term solution. But your purchase of a Surly tug nut was based upon this premise ? A purchase of an item that easily costs 2X what I paid for these for the sole purpose of covering up or touching up cosmetic damages that would've been more appropriately repainted on a steel frame ? Hmmmm, any surface rust underneath that tug nut ?

I agree, maybe new nuts and lock washers might be a better alternative to the axle nuts ? Then again, I'll deal with that sometime down the road if it presents an issue at that time ?

Not nuts and separate lock washers, but nuts with built in floating washers that permit you to tighten the nut without grinding it against the dropout. From Harris Cyclery:

Nuts


Track Nuts $3.95/each

don't get the purpose of these. thought the drivetrain was supposed to have a good amount of slack anyways (enough tension to make sure the chain doesn't come off)

its all about dialing it in. having no slack is an issue, but going from no slack to too much slack is very easy, and its really easy to overshoot the goal in either direction, if not for practicality, then certainly for personal preferences. having proper nuts, and/or a tensioner help to attain a very nice chain tension every time

hey I was too lazy to read all the previous posts but fuji I only have one, which is all you need

Sorry you didn't catch the sarcasm fuji, I was only joking

i've never found chain tension to be a precise art. is the chain loose enough to fall off? then does it have less than 1/2" of play at any part of the crank rotation?

if it's anywhere between these two then it's fine atmo

Those are what are on there now. the 3rd one to the left.

well, build up them skills, son. alternate tightening/loosening left and right nuts, and get things to where you like em. then crank down.

to get good tension, all you need is tracknuts, a good 15mm wrench, and your own two hands.

to get excellent tension, maybe throw in a chain tensioner or two.

if either of these scenarios is not the case, you need to practice more, double check that all the surfaces are clean, and make sure to REALLY crank down on the nuts.

edit: oh, and just makin sure - although they look like the 3rd one from the left, are you sure they are, ie, that they have the built in floating washer?

I received them in the mail today. I like them, put them on (kept them on the inside instead of the outside as they replaced the spacers that were already there. Adjusted them and tightened down the axle nuts. Chain tension right at 1/2" slack and it lines up where it should.

https://www.origin-8.com/product_deta...ter&cl1=CHAINS

The one's I bought were the same one's only black. Black versions have the Origin 8 logo on them. They also fit the axles perfectly and slid into the track ends snugly. I recommend the product for track frames that don't have the hex screw chain tensioners designed into the track ends as part of the frame. 5 stars for quality and value.

That's odd...

BMX axles are 3/8", which is roughly around 9.5mm...and most flip flop hubs are 10mm.

Then again, there are exceptions. Good job, fuji.

The 3/8" axle is .375 mm. 10 mm is .3937 inches. I think these would've been very close with a slightly larger axle, but would've still gone on. The wheelset is the 30 mm Tec 9's:

https://www.tec9components.com/?p=44

They were $ 8.95 delivered off ebay.

Many others get by with none at all.

Save your money.

John makes a very good point, you can save your money too. To summarize the thread in a single post, I was replacing cheaper chain tensioners, so I wanted them on the bike. And the situation I had with an inexpensive Vilano hi-ten frame was that no matter how hard and often I tried, the non-chain side would always slide back just enough to lose the desired chain tension when I cranked down and tightened that particular axle nut. I did it over and over until I was so frustrated with the whole process, that I realized that I'd have to get lucky to get it close to where I wanted it tensioned and aligned. I started this thread to find a solution. The Surly Tug Nut is the first thing I found on-line, it's an expensive item as others guided me to where they could be bought and even on ebay they are easily double what the Origin 8's cost at the time I pursued these. The Origin 8's are a little more affordable and to replace the cheap ones with like hardware, that was going to run me just a couple dollars less, so I splurged, figuring better quality was about what S&H would run on the crappier ones delivered. These particular items are functional, they line everything up and tension the chain without having to pull back on the wheel with your hand & fingers. And as a pair, everything is adjusted right the first time and makes the job easier. They are pretty attractive too. But I'll be honest about it, if the one's I had functioned properly, or had I been able to get by with one of them functioning properly, even had gotten by without even using them, I wouldn't have even bothered with starting the thread, much more buying them. Being as attractive and functional as they are, they provide a feature that some higher end track frames already have designed & built into the track ends. In that regard if you'd like that for your frame, while enhancing the appearance of the track ends, then go for it. Everyone has to assess for themselves what they want.

you should have tried new nuts.

Considering the nuts pictured from others were $ 3.95 each, that's $ 8 & change. I paid $ 8.95 for the new chain tensionser(s) and considering the pics I posted in # 24 of this thread of the cheap chain tensioner(s) that were scrap metal that were bent, this was not an issue of bad axle nuts. Those tighten down just fine.

Are you a robot?

Go Phillies & Eagles !

wait I want this fuji86 dude to teach more people about bikes.