what is consider a non-entry level frame?
 

I am currently riding an 09 Raleigh Rush Hour. this bike is fun, but im itching to build another.

what i have acknowledged from reading this forum is that these frames are considered as entry level:

bianchi pista
kilo tt
madison
the hour
motobecane
fuji track
raleigh rush hour
khs flite
IRO

What im looking for is something better than my rush hour. my price range is <$500. I dont mind buying used. i dont go to the track or do tricks. just group rides, commute to work, solo night rides to work out, casual ride with my gf to grab dinner.

im not really into aero frames. italian and NJS frames are way out of my price range. i have also considered the following, but i dont know if its considered 'entry level':

gt gutterball
eai bareknuckle
affinity lo pro - probably not desirable on the street
leader 722ts

is there anything wrong with buying another 'entry level' frame and putting better components on? to me it seems redundant to have 2 bikes in the same class.

thanks guys.

I don't really consider any frame a "beginner" frame the rider makes the bike the bike doesn't make the rider.

Bianchi Pista Concepts are nice, Cinelli MASH, Cinelli Vigorelli

trek t1
specialized langster

two bikes you left off your list

Figure out what your going to be using the bike for. Compare geometry and read reviews.

steel vs aluminum?

If you already have a FG bike, consider getting a road bike?

If you could redesign your Rush Hour what would you change about it?

Find the bike that fits those criteria, and get it. If you tell us what you would like changed, we can help point you in the right direction.

Leader?

thats a good point. so base on what you're saying, any frame is just as good.

i dont know if you read my post or just the title, but im not into aero frames. especially on the street.

i did mention in my OP, only for street use. group rides, commute to work, solo night rides for working out, casual rides with gf to grab dinner. i also want to be able to ride fast. i live in northern Orange county (huntington beach), its quite flat out here.

im only into steel frames. btw, is the cannondale track a steel frame?

my rush hour is a FG bike. i never put much thought into getting a geared bike. i love riding fixed too much.

since this is my 1st fixed gear bike, i dont really have any other bikes to compare to. i want something more agile and quick response.

my bike is what you guys considered 'tarcky', but i like it though. i want to steer away from that on my 2nd bike with clean, classy, and simple build.

my current parts list on the rush hour:

velo bmx saddle
generic seat post
dimension stem 80mm
nitto b123 or nitto rb-021 - i switch em out depending on my ride. mostly on the rb021 though.
cane creek headset
sram omnium crankset with external BB
soma hellyer 46t chainring
soma 16t cog
izumi chain
MKS sylvan pedal
MKS cage
Toshi double straps
rear red b43 with vittoria randdonuer
front white eighthinch julian with vittoria randdonuer

here are some old pics with the old drivetrain.
http://www.sonnygphotography.com/wp-...ike-update.jpg
http://www.sonnygphotography.com/wp-...-face-lift.jpg

yea, i thought about the 722ts. really like how the frame looks.

I cant really see much of a need for you to build another fixed gear. Seems like you have all you need, just are itching for another build. Id suggest build your self a bad weather bike, road bike, or maybe something goofy like a fixed mtb or something.

Uh-oh you listed Madison......someone will be upset.

yea pretty much just itching to build another. its quite addicting and fun.

another reason for a 2nd bike is so that i can leave 1 at my parents' place and 1 at my place so i dont have to keep transporting the 1 bike back and forth. i do most of my riding at my parents' because most of my friends are there. i usually ride solo where i stay.

As you should. It's a really nice frame.

sorry scrod!!

that pic is kind of creepy..its pretty hypnotizing at the same time.

No need to apologize. The Madison is considered "low end" or "entry level" compared to a lot of stuff out there.

When I was looking for a new bike I looked at the All City Big Block, The Leader 722ts, Spicer Standard Steel, and the Soma Rush. Ended up getting a good deal on a used Rush complete, and I have been really happy with it.

one thing that you might consider is the all city nature boy. It's a single speed cyclocross bike that's pretty bad ass, could also be run fixed. standard 4130 db cromo but there is so much more that you could do with it; fenders, rack, fatty cyclocross tires for some off road fun, etc. personally I've wanted to build another fixed gear for a while but have never been able to find a good reason for it other than it's something I want. If you really want something special though, look into custom frame builders. Nicer quality tubing tailored exactly to what you want. I personally am a big fan of Eric Noren from peacock groove. My friend bought this from him last summer

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6s3mYCY5QC...nes_nahbs1.jpg

Seems like a "level 2" frame is either custom or vintage/rare.

Edit: that being said, I see nothing wrong with your bike as is.

Just get the all city big block frame from BI.

A frame is only beginner if the rider is one.

I'm a huge proponent of the 722, even their 725 are nice. I've seen their older frames from several years back, which IMO, were not exactly quality built. I've been paying a lot of attention to them recently, and I've got to say Leader have definitely stepped up to the plate and knocked it way out of the park, their 722 is gorgeous and EXTREMELY light. You really have got to check out Leader frames in person and I think it'll change your view about them.

leaders geo is too based toward longer torso people.

look into some of EAI offerings, bareknuckle or godzilla(?) are nice steel frames.
The big block is a pretty nice frameset for the price.

Whats your budget for this frame and project?

Cant comment on the leader, but as a brand not one of my favorites.

Very true...especially the lugged Kilo and 725, but the 722 is fine IMO.

You should go down to Super Champ to check out their 722, it's actually quite nice...and really light.

http://store.citygrounds.com/store/p...-Pro-Frameset/

don't know if you fit a 56 or 49 though, looks like you ride a smaller bike so maybe on the 49? guessing you need a 52 though

I haven't actually been to Super Champ yet, that whole store seems like it will be too pretentious...
what is the 722 made out of?

where you paying attention to the OP? He ain't interested in aero bikez

http://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd-72...ack-frame2.cfm

hydroformed steel cromo 4130
tubes are like tear dropped shape. scrod's lady has one. check it out on his sig. its pretty sweet looking bike. theres also a thread here on the 722ts. i also believe the 722ts is leader's best looking frame.

ill probably lean toward the 722ts. can anyone comment whether it fits smaller or bigger than its stated size? i ride a 53cm rush hour. my inseam is 30cm. im aiming for the 51cm 722ts. at that size, does the top tube slope downward twds the seat tube?

Haha, I totally know what you mean...it took me awhile to actually go in there but the people are actually really chilled about things..

I wouldn't worry so much about the standover height but you should pay attention to what your current top tube height is and go from there. 51cm and up does not have a sloping top tube, but the smallest one might.

gotcha, thanks vixtor!