Just because something may be abandoned...doesn't mean you can take it.

Is vandalism and theft of medical records the same thing as taking an abandoned bike that's been sitting outside for three years? Methinks no.

In Chicago, if you find a bike outside for at least a month, you can call the city. The city will come out and affix a sign to it saying the bike will be removed by the city and junked if somoene doesn't claim it within 2 weeks. Then if no one comes, they remove the bike and junk it. So what's the difference? I still say take the bike. But if you want to go by the book, contact the city, let them come out with a sign, then the day they come to remove the bike, make an arrangement to meet up with the city workers, and when they break the lock, take possession of the bike. It's still liberating the bike, but for the naysayers out there, you can do it legally and with clean hands.

Koffee

Easy there Ms. Brown. Just liked the story about the UVa kids. I don't care either way. Here is an interesting run down on Illinois law as it applies to lost, mislaid, and abandoned property. I make no judgments....but proving a locked bike is abandoned may be difficult....

1. "Mislaid property" is that which is intentionally put in certain place and later forgotten.
2. Property is "lost" when it is unintentionally separated from dominion of its owner.
3. Property is "abandoned" when the owner, intending to relinquish all rights to the property, "leaves it free to be appropriated by another person."
4. Finder of property acquires no rights in mislaid property, is entitled to possession of lost property against everyone except to owner, and is entitled to keep abandoned property.
5. Generally, abandonment is not presumed and party seeking to declare abandonment must prove abandoning party intended to do so.

This comes straight from: Michael v. First Chicago Corp., 487 N.E.2d 403 Ill.App. 2 Dist.,1985.

Ummm... link please to the article? And what is the context that this caselaw falls under?

Koffee

Whoa. Just read through it.

Total and complete edit, since I read through an appeal based on the original ruling.

The caselaw you provided has to do with LOST property, not ABANDONED property.

In the case of abandoned property, the proper procedure is to notify the city, allow the city to go out and view the bike, then affix a claim tag on the bike, giving the owner two week's proper notice to claim the bike. If the bike is not claimed within that time, then the city will remove it. I called the city to verify this.

Caselaw having to do with lost property is not the same as caselaw to do with abandoned property. It would be in error to argue one case to prove a totally different case. And the issue is not to do with being sued over what is considered lost, it has to do with what is considered abandoned. The city has a specific procedure as to how to deal with abandoned bikes. Until an owner of an abandoned bike who sues the city steps in to change how they respond to a claim for abandoned bikes, I don't think they're going to change their procedure.

It may be a good idea to understand the procedures of the city before making assumptions about what should or should not be done based on caselaw that has little or nothing to do with how the city acts. Give our city non-emergency folks a call if you need some expanded explanation on what they consider abandonment and how they act to rid the city of abandoned vehicles.

No harm no foul- I don't get upset over trivial matters. Seriously.
Koffee

Goodness. Less coffee, Koffee. I was using the case to give a description of how property is handled in your lovely state, not necessarily applying the specific legal holding of the case to the circumstances in the present matter. These "common law" principles are applied to other cases in Illinois not just the one I cited. As I said, I don't care either way. But if you have to break a lock, it seems like stealing to me.

If you had locked your bike outside when you went overseas earlier this year, I'm assuming you would not have been upset if it were gone when you arrived back home. After all, somebody could have thought the bike was abandoned, left a note that went unanswered, and then taken your bike. Right?

If I went overseas, I wouldn't leave my bike outside. I know how the city reacts to abandoned bikes, so it would be silly for me to leave for my two month trip and think my bike would be ok. But if I left it outside, knowing how the city reacts to abandoned bikes and came back and found my bike gone, I'd be upset, but it would be my bad, not theirs. They are very clear as to what they will do with an abandoned bike.

If someone is overseas for three years, then that's a long time for them to tether the bike to a pole and expect it to be ok when they returned, wouldn't you think?

The city breaks the lock in this case. They must be big time thieves if they went by your code of conduct. They break a lot of locks and auction those bikes off every so often.

I think you're reading my words incorrectly. I'm not overreacting, just stating to someone who is from the outside how the city reacts in such cases. No argument. Your problem is with the city, not me.

Koffee

I got no problems. Is Mayonnaise with the city? That's really my point here. I don't care what the city does. But you are advocating a non-city worker stealing a bike.

Mayo is in Chicago (check under his username).

I advocated several options. If he didn't want to wait, from the sounds of it, I gave one imput. If he wanted to go about it legally, I gave a different, legally sanctioned option. It looked like you're arguing against what the city policy is, and to call them thieves based on caselaw that doesn't apply to the situation doesn't seem all that correct.

As I said before, call the city, let them come out and affix an abandoned bike notice, then make an appointment to meet with the city workers on the day they remove the abandoned bike. If he can wait 3 years, he can certainly wait 2 more weeks. I did that same thing myself that I recommended to Mayo, but in my case, the owner finally came with 2 days to go and removed the bike. :( :cry:

Koffee

I said is Mayo WITH the City, not IN the city. Don't tell me to check his user name if you don't read my post. You said "Liberate the Bike!" Then later brought up the city. The city stuff was all you. I don't care what the city policy is. My whole point is that it becomes a problem when everybody is allowed to decide when it is okay to break someone's lock and take a bike. That's it.

Cool- not a problem. I brought up the city of Chicago policy for those who are a bit uptight with the idea of "liberating" the bike. It's the alternative to get your panties out of a bunch, that's all.

As I said, if you didn't know how the city works, you probably aren't going to comprehend the suggestion I posed. REGARDLESS of whether you work for the city or not, you have the right to call in and find out when they plan on being there to cut the locks and ask for the bike. As I explained before, I did that, and they were fine with giving the bike to me, but two days before the cut date, someone came by and picked up the bike. :( So no bike for me. Too bad, it was a decent mountain bike, albeit a little rusty.

So again, if it makes you sleep better at night, know you can go through the safe channels and get the bike through the city. It's been done before with no problems. If you can't wait, you'll get the bike using a simple bic. But if you're all into doing the right thing, contact the city of Chicago, report the abandoned bike, then make the plans with the folks there to be present when the city cuts the lock so you can claim it then.

Sorry about the misread. I was at work, unfortunately, and reading while doing customer service.

Koffee

Here in Chicago it is very important to know what the city policy is. This city runs on city policy! For better or worse. And, stuff left in public places isn't allowed to just sit there for indefinite periods of time. If I were going on a two week ... much less two month ... vacation I wouldn't leave something on public property expecting it to be there when I return. I don't know how it is in DC, but here in Chicago, folks don't like junk hanging around.

Shiek, you may not care what city policy is ... but Koffee has the Chicago policy, which affects this situation, right.

The only thing I'd add is if the rack is on private property, the owner of the property might have to say something to the cops about the bike, it's abandonment, or wanting it cut off. Personally, I'm not sure if I'd leave the note or have the cops do it, but I'd go with one or the other giving the person a couple weeks notice and then get that bike back to a useful life.

Heh, nice social experiment, Mayo.

we have ****loads of bikes here, many left abandoned by students.

all it takes is a drunk ******* to come along and stomp one of those aluminum rims, and the owner will let a $300 Trek, Fisher, Giant, whatever-- rot eternally. They can't use it to get around anymore, so it stays locked through winter. Spring comes and they've totally forgotten about where they left their bike. They go home for the summer and put it out of their minds for good.

They don't know that it'd cost $40 for a shop to replace the whole wheel, and no more than a couple of minutes. But, alas, their parents bought the bike in the first place, so they don't care.

I just know damn sure what I'm taking isn't wanted.

steal everything.

**** the law.

Mayo likes the precious.
The precious wants mayo to haves it.
Maya feels the pull ofs the preciousous.

Yes, the precious wants to bes had and mayo wants's it and wants's it now!

Go by the book?... What's that?

Mayo
the fact that you are asking us, to me, states you have made up your mind: the bike is already yours.

I can see it now a headline reading

"Mass bike thefts sparked by on line forum"

The bible, of course.

Repent, sinners!

;)

Koffee

BUt Mayo, if you were to leave a note for the owner to either step forward and retrieve their property, who's to say some other bike afficionado who has been eyeing the same bike won't step up and free it before you do?

Check with the laws in Chicago and if they say go, I'd PROUNCE on it!

think of it as doing your part, your civic duty to clean up the streets and to be part of the reduce, reuse, recycle (intended), little green sort of triangle (sort of shaped like a piece of pie......) thingie

:)

you have to take it!
abandoned bikes are eventually taken by the council to the dump and trashed, most are not even recycled.
its well worth taking any abandoned bikes and making them of use for people who maybe cant afford a bike.

I watched a perfectly nice Kona disintegrate over two years ... I wish I had stolen the usable parts...

Oh, I thought that the Bible was only meant for holding doors open.

no, it is actually intended for a variety of uses. My favorite of which is fiction.

My favorite of which is fundamentalist crusades...

I am going to steal it. I know it hasn't been ridden in years. The tires are flat, the seat is gone. I've watched the bike so closely that it would be impossible to remove it and put it back without me noticing the difference.

I think I'm going to call the city and tell them it's my bike and that I lost the key and would they be so kind as to meet me and cut the lock off.

Call it stealing, call it liberation, call it whatever you like. Why should I let this beauty rot any further when I can give it a good home and almost irrefutably determine it's been abandoned?

Certainly to everyone reading this bicycles are more than mere commodities, that they have a spiritual power. Certainly many, most even, don't think this way. They cast them off like skrink wrap. I want to rescue this bike before it goes to the junk heap, melted down for scrap.

Totally.