Just wondering if anyone who has actually owned one has anything to say bout them. I hear a lot of down talking from people who have never been within miles of them. So just if you have had one for any length of time or if its newer just hows it going?

Paging TejanoTrackie to the red courtesy phone; TejanoTrackie to the red courtesy phone please.

Last night I just typed visp in the search bar and found plenty of threads on the frame. Many say it's on the heavy side and very stiff.

I have had one for abotu a year. metric ton of miles on it ****ing off doing stupid stuff. still rocks. needs a crabon fork cause the stock one is heavy as ****. but other than that, im happy with it still.

VERY stiff. id say stiffer than my FTP honestly

Yeah, I've had one for almost 2 years now, and it's worked out very well. It's quite heavy for an aluminum frame, but that's the only real drawback. The welding is good quality, there were no problems with frame alignment or BB threads so assembly was easy, the dropouts are strong with sturdy stainless steel inserts and screw tensioners, and the paint was decent. Frame geometry is a lot like a Leader, with a steep headtube angle even on small sizes and a long toptube. Decals are not removable, but they now sell stripper versions in black and white. Unfortunetely, prices have risen since I bought mine in an auction for only $51 (I got lucky), and shipping cost is high ($70 to the USA), so you'll probably pay over $200 now for a frameset with headset, seat binder clamp, stem spacers and seatpost. They now also have a model that looks kinda like a leader 725tr with a built-in seat binder bolt. I haven't been abusive to mine, but it feels very sturdy and dentproof with its thick main tubing. Unless you plan on competing on the track, I think it's a good economical choice for a street SSFG bike.

Do you think its worth the 200 now?

IMO, it's not worth $200+, mainly due to the fact that you almost certainly want to replace the fork. The problem is that not only is the fork heavy, it also does a poor job of dampening vibration and shock from the stiff aluminum frame. All my other aluminum road and track frames have carbon forks, which makes a huge difference in comfort as well as reducing weight significantly.

Nope especially since coghouse flooded and still trickles out slightly blemished leader frames that go for around $100 - 200.

Heck I got 2 for less than $250; they offer local pick up from their warehouse if you reside in the san diego area. But since then, people have caught on to these steals....

Wait how you get the leaders for sub 200?

These are either blemished / flawed seconds or older versions that are sold by coghouse on eBay in auctions or fixed price (Buy it Now):

https://shop.ebay.com/coghouse/m.html....c0.m270.l1313

They are bare frames only with no fork or headset.

I got lucky and both my frames came with super minor things from the factory (how do I know? all the pointed out flaws in the auction were under the clearcoat and were excessive/ more prominent machine marks; to be honest you can only tell if you examine closely).. it proves to you how honest and strict leader's quality control is to be honest. The frames up on the block seem to have bigger problems/ flaws.

~~~~~~~~~~~The ONLY hassle is that these all the flawed frames up for auction by coghouse have their serial numbers blacklisted on their warranty records; meaning they come with none of that awesome leader lifetime warranty... so be careful with those auctions, if the price gets close to the price of a new umblemished leader frame with warranty, stop and walk away. How awesome is leader's warranty? If your frame cracks (EVEN for their fixed freestyle tarck frames!), they'll replace it for you for free; if you have an older model of the frame and they stopped making it, free automatic upgrade to the newest model. The process is expedited if you have it done through a leader dealer.

decals can be removed with an eraser wheel btw

i removed all mine before i painted it

i rock my visp as my daily beater and trick bike

haven't had any problems, its real stiff, rides straight, alignment is great, built in chain tensioners are cool, stock fork is heavy due to hiten steerer, but you might not care depending on your purpose for it.

i'd say it's a good price, i paid $188 shipped.

those coghouse leaders would be better if you plan on changing the fork, and if you can catch them dirt cheap, and you'll need a headset.

can the leader 721tr v2.5 decals be removed off a eraser wheel too? anyway to do it without a drill though?? if not does the lock adaper come with the drill??