Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

Leader or EAI BK

Old 02-17-12, 03:04 PM
  #26  
MincedFeet
Senior Member
 
MincedFeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bones_mcbones View Post
Dropping knowledge ^.

The BK will still be less stiff than an aluminum frame?
Steel is stiffer and harder than aluminum. But alu frames compensate by having larger toobs. So, I think the bk having OS steel tubes sounds pretty damn stiff.
MincedFeet is offline  
Old 02-17-12, 03:07 PM
  #27  
steelisreal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
aa

Last edited by steelisreal; 12-16-13 at 04:38 PM. Reason: aa
steelisreal is offline  
Old 02-17-12, 03:12 PM
  #28  
Scrodzilla
See you in Hell.
 
Scrodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 25,945

Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 573 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
You can make a noodle or a brick out of any material.
I'm going to make a brick out of noodles. What then?
Scrodzilla is offline  
Old 02-17-12, 03:14 PM
  #29  
mihlbach
Senior Member
 
mihlbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,519
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Look, I don't doubt that you enjoyed your BK or that you found it comfortable. But your description of how it rides is just not accurate. The OS tubeset and geometry alone indicates it was not designed to "soak up bumps" and I can tell you from abundant experience riding this frame and many others that it doesn't, at least not in comparison to typical road frame of any material. Your username suggests a bias towards steel, which doesn't help your credibility in this...just sayin'. Your description of how the BK rides hints of the stereotypical and irrational anti-everything-but-steel rant that many steel-philes continuously spew. You may or may not be one of those people...but thats the impression I get from your username and mischaracterizaton of how the EAI BK frame rides.

Last edited by mihlbach; 02-17-12 at 03:23 PM.
mihlbach is offline  
Old 02-17-12, 03:18 PM
  #30  
mihlbach
Senior Member
 
mihlbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,519
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
I'm going to make a brick out of noodles. What then?
Cover it with the flavoring from a packet of Ramen...I prefer any flavor thats spicy and Korean.
mihlbach is offline  
Old 02-17-12, 03:22 PM
  #31  
steelisreal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
aa

Last edited by steelisreal; 12-16-13 at 04:37 PM. Reason: aa
steelisreal is offline  
Old 02-17-12, 03:26 PM
  #32  
steelisreal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
aa

Last edited by steelisreal; 12-16-13 at 04:36 PM. Reason: aa
steelisreal is offline  
Old 02-17-12, 03:32 PM
  #33  
Stezzy
Senior Member
 
Stezzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
http://www.pedalroom.com/p/bareknuckle-3937_1.jpg

saw this and it won me over that yellow is beautiful
Stezzy is offline  
Old 02-18-12, 01:13 AM
  #34  
Wussup
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mihlbach what kind of frame do you suggest will be better for the road then? 5-star info btw, thanks a lot

Last edited by Wussup; 02-18-12 at 01:17 AM.
Wussup is offline  
Old 02-19-12, 02:59 PM
  #35  
andre nickatina
not actually Nickatina
 
andre nickatina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: OR
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ugh...

I guess I'll step in to clear up the ****-show and confusion.

First off, the OP isn't even asking about which frame would make a better road rider, so to give the answer to that is to ignore his actual question entirely. He's interested in riding a sw8 fixay on the street, not logging long, uninterrupted miles on a farm road.

Secondly, a frame can be both "stiff" and "compliant". How is this possible? The way a frame soaks up road vibrations is related to it's compliance; in that regards, a BK is a plenty compliant frame because of the tubeset used. A bike can also be stiff in the headtube and bottom bracket area, where stiffness is desirable by racers and anyone who intends to put a decent effort into their bike. Geometry and tubing affect both; the confusion in the conversation thus far has to do with confusion between these two things.

Tubesets aim to balance weight, stiffness and ride quality through diameter, butting and wall thickness; the BK's tubeset is, relatively speaking, a very oversized steel diameter ("standard"/classic being what you'd see on an old lugged steel bike), increasing the stiffness of the ride (in the sense that I just discussed). However, at the same time, the butting of the tubeset and thinnest of the walls at the most butted area add to the compliance of the ride, and make the BK soak up vibrations relatively nicer than similar steel bikes with thicker-walled/butted tubesets (Kilo TT comes to mind, as does my old Alien).

Now, the fun comes when you're trying to compare frames across different materials. The Leader will likely ride with both less compliance and more stiffness in the HT/BB area as a matter of the geometry and tubesets; especially with the fact that Leader likes to use aero downtubes, which really aren't known for a compliant ride. At the same time, the Leader will be lighter assuming all parts are kept the same, and will feel livelier on the initial acceleration due to the stiffness-weight ratio. (Compliance, of course, is not just down to frame material; tire choice, pressure and width make up the most immediate factor.)

Therefore, it comes down to values - do you want a bike that you can worry less about locking up, soaks up vibration from the streets a bit better but is also a little heavier and ultimately less stiff from a headtube/BB area perspective (but still plenty stiff for tree-trunk thighed trackies to race against in competition), or do you want a frame that may dent easier while locking up, ride harsher on rough streets but feel snappier under accelerations and not flex as much if you really sprint it hard?

For the record, I ride a BK and Concept, the BK mainly on the street and the Concept mainly on the track. Different tools for different uses, but I will say the geometry of the BK is among the best I've ever ridden (the BB drop is sky high and at least for me, that coupled with the front-end trail makes it a ton of fun to ride). If I could, I'd just buy another Concept to ride on the street but the extreme thinness of the tubeset's walls, while making the bike soak up vibration very nice for aluminum, also subjects it to dents while locking up.

Hope that was clear enough. The OP probably isn't gonna understand any of this for a couple more years.
andre nickatina is offline  
Old 02-19-12, 07:49 PM
  #36  
max5480
Rhythm is rhythm
 
max5480's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
get the bare knuckle no doubt
if you can spare the change
max5480 is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 03:44 AM
  #37  
Wussup
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by andre nickatina View Post
info
i could say i understood about 80% of this, ****ing useful as hell thanks a lot. im sold on the BK for sure. thanks to everyone again for the suggestions. cant wait to start building

this can be locked

Last edited by Scrodzilla; 02-20-12 at 07:03 AM. Reason: cuss word
Wussup is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 10:15 AM
  #38  
Mr. Mcshiny
Junior Member
 
Mr. Mcshiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My understanding after prowling these and other fixed gear forums is that most serious fixed gear riders dislike leaders because they are cheap. I guess it goes back to hipster street cred. Two friends of mine both have leaders, one being a 735, and they are definitely nice frames. It really depends on what characteristics are important to you. If this bike will be your daily driver the bareknuckle looks better on paper. But more expensive does not always mean better quality.
Mr. Mcshiny is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 01:10 PM
  #39  
andre nickatina
not actually Nickatina
 
andre nickatina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: OR
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I can't speak for Leader stuff as of now, but in the past they had crap quality control and some of the worst thought-out geometry I've seen. I like the looks of the 735 and Kagi, but can't find any geometry specs on the former and only limited stuff on the latter, so unless they're able to provide some I wouldn't buy. I think that, plus the cheapness in the past, is what killed their 'cred', but I'd give them a second chance now if I could ride one and see the specs.
andre nickatina is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 01:44 PM
  #40  
Santaria
Senior Member
 
Santaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brownsville, TX
Posts: 2,174

Bikes: Surly CC

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a green BK that's hanging on my wall waiting to be built-up when I get to Georgia. Did you look at the EAI godzilla frameset too? Nicer welds, NJS. Lighter, better material. At some point in the next year I'm going to pick one up for my son. Leader has a good reputation here, both because Scrod has done a good job of marketing through usage (and being a nice guy) and because some people just want to keep their money going where they can see it. In short - it's very easy to feel compelled to try something when everybody else is doing it. Leader has developed that following.
Santaria is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 01:52 PM
  #41  
Scrodzilla
See you in Hell.
 
Scrodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 25,945

Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 573 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by andre nickatina View Post
I can't speak for Leader stuff as of now, but in the past they had crap quality control and some of the worst thought-out geometry I've seen. I like the looks of the 735 and Kagi, but can't find any geometry specs on the former and only limited stuff on the latter, so unless they're able to provide some I wouldn't buy. I think that, plus the cheapness in the past, is what killed their 'cred', but I'd give them a second chance now if I could ride one and see the specs.
Geo for both of those frames is readily available on my shop's website and many others.
Scrodzilla is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 01:56 PM
  #42  
Sherblock
Senior Member
 
Sherblock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,871

Bikes: '14 Kona Rove, '06 Bob Jackson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Santaria View Post
Nicer welds, NJS.
Really? I thought it was just made by a keirin frame builder, Toyo.
Sherblock is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 02:07 PM
  #43  
Scrodzilla
See you in Hell.
 
Scrodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 25,945

Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 573 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The EAI Godzilla isn't NJS stamped. Does it actually matter? No.
Scrodzilla is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 02:16 PM
  #44  
Sherblock
Senior Member
 
Sherblock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,871

Bikes: '14 Kona Rove, '06 Bob Jackson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well usually the stamp means +50% on whatever it's actually worth. That's why I was wondering, it seemed cheap for a new njs bike.

The colors are great too. OP, which color did you pick out?
Sherblock is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 02:21 PM
  #45  
Scrodzilla
See you in Hell.
 
Scrodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 25,945

Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 573 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sherblock View Post
The colors are great too.
Seriously. We just received a shipment of them and I'm very torn between building up a pink or purple one (although I'm leaning heavily toward pink).

Last edited by Scrodzilla; 02-20-12 at 02:26 PM.
Scrodzilla is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 02:36 PM
  #46  
Sherblock
Senior Member
 
Sherblock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,871

Bikes: '14 Kona Rove, '06 Bob Jackson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I always liked pink!
Sherblock is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 02:44 PM
  #47  
Santaria
Senior Member
 
Santaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brownsville, TX
Posts: 2,174

Bikes: Surly CC

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah, I thought they were NJS stamped, regardless, they have some awesome color selection. The biggest selling point of the godzilla is the better craftsmanship, imho. My BK is sexy as hell, just not as sexy.
Santaria is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 03:01 PM
  #48  
Sherblock
Senior Member
 
Sherblock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,871

Bikes: '14 Kona Rove, '06 Bob Jackson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well they're different frames. I'm fairly certain the BK is mad win italy with italian tubes where as the Godzilla is japanese tubes and made by Toyo.

I wish my dad would pick me up a Godzilla ;_;
Sherblock is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 03:08 PM
  #49  
Scrodzilla
See you in Hell.
 
Scrodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 25,945

Bikes: EAI Bare Knuckle

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 573 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The Bareknuckle is supposedly "handmade for EAI by a small shop in Venezia Italy. The tubes of the Bare Knuckle are mitered and TIG welded in Dedacciai COM 12.5 double butted cro-moly and feature Columbus dropouts".

Both frames are beautiful, IMO.
Scrodzilla is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 03:37 PM
  #50  
solipsist716
Magnets, how do they work
 
solipsist716's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 1,299
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
The EAI Godzilla isn't NJS stamped.
solipsist716 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.