I agree. It has a very little effect on the steering.

This thing made me physically gag. God help any fools who buys that Thruster-wheeled deathtrap.
https://greenbay.craigslist.org/bik/3843930327.html

Throw a 50mm stem on your bike and try telling me you don't notice a difference.

+1

This justifies nothing.

Track bikes already do that by having steeper angles within their intended geometry's. By having a shorter stem you are twitch-a-fying an already twitchy ride. By having a high stack, you are killing the effective reach and then it's only made worst by using an over rotated short reach compact bar. The bike will be set up way more responsive than intended.

This bike has a counter productive stack and stem combo which is another piece of jackassery in itself even if it negates the high stack problem. It doesn't even take advantage of the stem's drop. You could have a slammed 0' stem and the bars would sit in a relatively similar spot. This cockpit is set up like total ass.

reposting bike on this page for reference:

Lets see:
Track drops, ONE side wrapped, one side core sampler, hoods and levers with NO brakes!
double aerospoke
Worst lock job ever (free langster!)
No foot retention
etc

Regarding the stem length debate:

1. Having used 50,70,80,100, and 110mm stems, yeah it does make a difference in handling. But you get used to it in probably 30 seconds, so it is negligible - at least in a non-race environment. The accompanying bars also make a difference. Short stems + wide bars such as risers or long bars like bullhorns work well. Anyone who complains about chode stems probably has never tried one or think they're just ugly altogether.

2. <100mm stems does not mean your bike is too small, especially if your bike is less than a size 51. I have loooong femurs and need a 40mm setback seatpost on frames already smaller than I need. That sometimes means a shorter stem. Sure, I could get a slack seat tube or a custom frame, but that limits my brand choices.

3. All that tall stack/ short reach mumbo jumbo does not matter on the streets. It may make a difference in a race, but you get used to your setup pretty quick unless it is terribly jackass or ill-fitted. Theories and numbers can only get you so far without the actual experience of trying out some of these "taboo" setups.

I don't own a 50mm stem because my bikes fit.

missingthepoint.gif

avoidingthepoint.png

But really, the distance from where your hands go to the center of your steerer isn't changed very much by stem length.
Unless of course you're a stem hugging hipster. Then yes, stem sizes probably change the way the bike handles if you steer the bike with the stem.

I feel as though that is a completely legitimate bike..... wait a second! And it appears as though BOTH are locked on "tightly" through the rear... free bikes GO.

Two langsters for the price of none!

A change in stem length changes the weight distribution between the front and rear wheel which can change the way a bike handles.

Precisely, but Nagrom will disagree.

The weight distribution of a bike a with a wheelbase of a meter plus is not going to changed much by changing the stem by a cm or two. Unless of course you're changing your 150 for a 40.

Of course, 'cause it's hogwash.

I disagree and so will most professional frame builders and bike fitters. And Scrod.

Don't care. It's all in your heads.

Whose intention and why should I care what "they" intended? Do frame builders really have an ideal setup of their frames when they design/construct them? These are honest questions. Too responsive? Sounds like a value judgement, yours in particular, which does not necessarily apply universally.

If this setup works anatomically for the rider, I don't see what all the hubbub is about.

This is kind of silly. Counter-productivity? You could find a seemingly endless combination of spacer/stem angle/stem length to find a desired position for your hands. Who's to say which is more proper? My guess is that they bought the stem because it matched the angle of their top-tube and it looks nice. With a little bit of foresight, they decided not to slam the stem and chop all of the excess steerer tube to make for a more versatile platform for bike setups. They added spacers to make it fit better.

So I shouldn't buy a high-rise stem and slam it with spacers on top? I shouldn't buy a negative-drop stem and use spacers below? I don't see the problem with any of these.

This is a hard bike to defend, because I'm not too particularly fond of the saddle/bar angle combo nor the excessive amount of branding on the bike. I just don't see the big deal about stem length/positioning. These bikes take aesthetics into account and having a stem that works nicely with the lines of the bike while also giving the rider a comfortable position is doing nothing wrong in my eyes.

You not believing you would notice a difference does not necessarily mean that others are unable to notice said difference and vice versa.

I agree. All of this is "in our heads". This doesn't automatically invalidate the discussion. Ad absurdum, we can never grasp anything outside of our heads .

Nagrom is right. Like the weight of his Kilo, it's all just a fairy tale.

Physiological differences =/= physical differences.

Only you'd know.

I don't think anybody has even complained about the spokes crossing at the valve stem on the rear wheel of the Colossi.

It's all in your head.