Ictoanta

Hey all,

First, a warning: instead of just asking a simple question, I tend to elaborate a bit much... feel free to ignore me if you dislike this habit also the actual questions are at the bottom...)

I recently decided I want to buy a fixed gear bike. A summary of how this went:

"hey these bikes look like fun, let's order a really cheap one online, they even have pretty colors!" (yes, I was looking at Create bikes, which are apparently the same as Republic bike)
"hm, if I spent a bit more I can get a nicer one" (looking at Polo&Bike, mainly because they at least where full chromoly frames)
"well, since it'll cost a bit more I'll do some research" (read a lot here and in other places, posted my first thread here, decided that maybe quality was more important than pretty colors and geometry actually matters too...)
"ok, this isn't going to be that easy"

Now, if I were to live in the States, I'd have an easy time of it. You have a lot of choice when it comes to these bikes (which in my price-range seems to equate to "buy a Kilo"). But, I live in the Netherlands. We have more bikes here than we have people (seriously, not a joke, we do). But apparently not a lot of fixed gear bikes.... which means hardly any stores that sell them and very limited availability when it comes to brands and parts and such. After quite a bit of searching I've found one store that sells more than just a few models, I'm going over there next weekend to check some bikes out.

Basically, I now have a few options, based on my budget and the bikes available:

-The Fuji Feather: probably my first choice right now, but they are out of stock untill october. If it is the best choice I'll wait. But I would really like to start riding in the summer...

-The Creme Vinyl Solo: I love the looks (on-par with the feather in my view), and it seems decent. But: the frame only has a chromoly seat tube, the rest is apparently hi-ten. They advertise that they get their tubes from Tange in Japan (which is supposed to be good) and the bike isn't heavier than most chromo bikes, so I was a bit surprised by the use of hi-ten steel. Specs on the same model in previous years seem to implicate that those where full chromo, which is even weirder. Or are other "chromo" frames in this price-range simply not full chromo either?

-The Maze fixed gear: a Dutch brand, which I guess is nice for me. Seems decent, though I'm not to fond of all the shiny metal personally. Full chromo frame and fork. But, hard to find any objective reviews...

-Build from scratch: I could get the store to build a bike up from scratch. They have Leader frames and a selection of parts. But, doing some calculations, the only thing I could get built up in my price range (max 750 euros or about 980 dollars) would be a Leader 721 frame with basic parts... or possibly a 722 frame with el cheapo parts...

A last note: in the Netherlands we can get a tax-benefit when buying a bike. In essence, I pay the bike from my before-tax income, which it's actually 42% cheaper. This is up to 750 euros (hence the budget). But this doesn't work if I order from outside of the Netherlands, or for second-hand bikes (not that there are many good second-hand FG's for my size for sale anyway)

When I'm at the store I'll try out a few bikes to see what fits best and rides best, but since the Fuji won't be there, I won't be able to compare it to the others.

Ok, so I do actually have some real questions:

-Does anyone have experience with the Creme Vinyl Solo and/or is the partly hi-ten steel frame a reason to stay away?
-Am I correct in assuming that building up a 721 or possibly 722 frame with "as cheap as they get" parts wouldn't really be a good idea?
-Assuming that no-one here will have experience with the Maze bikes, does anything in the specs pop out to suggest either "good" or "avoid like the plague"?

Again, thanks to anyone taking the time to read/reply!

b-ride

Decide what's more important, I guess. Riding a bike now(ish)? Then get one of the readily available pre-builts. The Maze looks perfectly serviceable.

If you don't mind waiting til October, then wait for the bike you want more - the Fuji- or buy the best frame you can afford (whether or not its a Leader- dont know much about them, but I think i remeber their earlier rep to be a cheaper option. If they changed or improved, I'm sure others know better)and still be able to kit it out with cheap parts. They will all wear at different rates, so you can just upgrade as needed what's worn out and replace what you like as you can. A cheap stem or headset will last far longer than cheap cranks or pedals, but sometimes you just gotta switch that stem out.

Hope that helps.

Ictoanta

Thanks, it does help I think building from scratch will end up being expensive (especially if I'd also want to shop to put it together I guess).

Between the 3 pre-built options, the Fuji has both the looks and the specs I'm looking for, the Maze has the specs (afaict) but the look is slightly off for me and the Creme has the looks but the frame being mostly hi-ten is a concern. So yes, I need to decide what is most important I guess if the Creme is on-par with the Fuji quality-wise I'd be happy to go with that. Otherwise I need to decide whether I can live with the look of the Maze (with some customisation possibly). Main issue being the chrome fork...

Ah, choices, choices

uluchay

I am thinking of converting my old road bike to a fixie starting from September. Everyone has a different taste but I feel like building it is the right thing to do. My only advice would be to get a flip-flop wheel on the back so you can switch to single speed whenever you want.

Ictoanta

Agree on the flip-flop, for now, I'm used to riding SS (my current bike is a 1sp Electra Rally Sport) so if I fail at riding fixed I can always wimp out

I've got an MTB with a broken derailleur that I might convert into a SS/FG MTB at some point, but for my first FG I'm looking to buy new for a number of reasons (the mentioned tax benefit, but more importantly the fact that I've been meaning to do "something" with the MTB for about 5 years now... )

Ictoanta

Another question someone might be able to help me with: I've been reading a lot off "hi-ten vs Chromo" debates here and elsewhere. In general, everyone seems to agree: Chromo beats hi-ten hands down, by a mile... Occasionally, someone will counter "yeah but hi-ten is fine, really, if you're not a pro BMX rider jumping of tall buildings..."

So, I know Chromo is much stronger for the same weight. Knowing that, you'd expect two comparable bikes from these two materials to have very different weights. That is, assuming that the manufacturer will build a bike strong enough but not ridiculously over-strong, you'd save weight by using Chromo. But, looking at the difference between hi-ten and Chromo bikes around my price-range, they all way roughly the same (around 10.5 kilograms), regardless of the material used.

Does this mean the hi-ten ones are actually unacceptably "weak"? Or are the chromo ones redundantly strong? Even more confusing, a some manufacturers seem to have changed from chromo to hi-ten in the last few years within one model. For instance, the SE Lager used to be full chromo (around 2007) and is now full hi-ten... What little I can find about the Creme Vinyl Solo suggest this used to be full chromo as well (whereas now only the fork and seat tube are chromo).

Also, a lot of people build their FG's themselves using old (vintage) frames. Which are often hi-ten, I assume... so, are they actually not that good?

Based on what I've found, I'm loathe to buy a hi-ten bike, especially if I can get a chromo bike for the same money. But am I right in this, or is the difference not as big as suggested...? I won't be putting the bike through a lot of hardship most likely, but I'd still rather not pay the same for something inferior, even if I wouldn't really notice the difference (does that make sense?)

rms13

How about a Dolan?

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/index.php...ack-bikes.html

I just built a Pre Cursa and it's a great frame for the money. Their complete bikes have decent components and still within your price range. They are in England so shipping cost would probably not be too expensive. The FXE bike has rear brakes which you might want

Ictoanta

Hmm they do look nice.... you're not making it any easier tbh

jankdc

If it were me, I would go with a new bike (you can't pass up that tax credit). I like steel, and I would go cromoly. I'd go with the maze, but I like shiney. So either the maze or wait for the fuji. A couple of months isn't long to wait for the bike you really want.

Ictoanta

Yeah, I'm on that train of thought as well at the moment. When I go to the shop I'll also get to feel how the bikes fit, the Maze goes up to 60 cm, Fuji has a 61 and the Creme only goes to 59 which would be rather small for me. Being 6'3''and 190 pounds, I'm probably best of with a large and sturdy bike

I'll also ask the shopkeeper if he would be willing to swap some parts out on the Maze. I know they have the wheels in red and black as well, I'd want different handlebars anyway... might be able to make it more to my taste that way

CyclingDaily

Try THIS website, they have bicycles for a decent price!

jankdc

I guess an even bigger consideration is fit.

Jared.

Take some measurements via this fit calculator:
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...LCULATOR_INTRO
Use the results to compare them to the geometries of the bikes you are considering. If I were you, I'd get the Fuji, as to take advantage of the tax credit. Good luck.

Ictoanta

Thanks, I've filled it out but the measurements I used aren't really accurate (was doing it by myself with a crappy tape-measure and no level). Result: I'd need a 63cm C to T seattube for a competitive fit O.o that would mean that even the 61cm would be to small (or at least even smaller than the advised competitive fit...) But, I'll ask my wife to do some accurate measurements tonight

I also used a less advanced calculator (just total length and inseam, which I do know a bit more accurately) and that said 62 - 66 cm bike as well. Now, I don't see myself as being all that tall, but apparently I'm almost a freak when it comes to road bikes (even the Dutch Maze doesn't have anything larger than 60cm, and by Dutch standards, I'm just slightly above average height...)

Good news: I've found a shop in my home town that sells FG's as well they were a bit hard to find because they are also a coffee shop (the normal kind, not the Dutch version ) but turns out they are 3 minutes from my office Their approach is "build to needs", so I've dropped them a mail with what I'm looking for, so might open up some more options...

Thanks again

jankdc

Does the tax credit apply to the bikes that the "build to needs" shop sell?

Ictoanta

It does, you just need a receipt from a shop (in the netherlands) basically... might even apply to second hand bikes when bought at a shop

Flaneur

Bike shop 3 minutes away is the best way to go:-) Buy the best steel frame you can afford, that fits. Everything else is disposable.

Ictoanta

It's convenient to have them close, true. On the other hand, I've sent them an email last friday with some questions and no reply yet (the other shop 2 hours away replied to every email within a couple of hours and it turned out he was actually closed for holiday...)

I hear you on the parts being disposable, but on the other hand, this bike will be used mainly for short commutes and I'll probably go for a bit of an "excersise" ride about once a week. Basically, I don't think I'll be wearing the parts out very soon (unless they are truly rubbish). If it turns out I will use the bike more than I think now, I'll probably want to buy a better one altogether

The more I think about it, the more I think that size and "sturdiness" might be the most important factor for me... Ah well, I'll see if the shop here replies and I'll go check out some bikes this weekend.

sinikl

Don't overthink the sturdiness. I weigh 250 lbs now, weighed 280 when I bought my Kilo. If you plan on hitting a lot of potholes hard, consider deeper section rims (the Origin8 "TrakAttak" wheels I have now -- weinmann Pegasus rims, formula hubs -- ran over a piece of paving brick in the road that I hit dead on at around 18 mph and are still true). They are also heavy as F--K and added 1.5 lbs to the bike). Long story short 190 lbs is not something to worry about IMO.

Ictoanta

Ah, that's good to know, thanks!

mukman

Are you in Amsterdam? if so, let's ride once you pick one. I'll show you how to change tires or some such if you need it.

Ictoanta

I'm in The Hague, but maybe once I get into long-distance rides

Ictoanta

Ok, getting closer and closer to an actual decision basically, I've narrowed it down to 2 options each having two sub-options: 1: a complete bike, which would be the Fuji Feather or the Maze (which depends on how I like the Maze when I see it), or 2: build one up, either based on an old road-bike frame with good parts or a good new frame with cheap parts.

I'm leaning towards just buying a complete bike, for a number of reasons. Basically, for the money I'm looking to spend, I don't think I'd be able to build something that's any better. Of course I could get some cheap parts to replace later on, but that'd still mean spending more money Plus, I'd rather have something overall decent than something half good/half bad to start with. The LBS I mailed responded that they can't build anything up to their standard for 650 euros, but that they can build (or help build) something based on an old frame.

Now, I know many people say this is the way to go when getting into fixed gear riding, but, I'm not convinced yet. First off, I'd need to buy a second hand frame, clean it, strip it and have it powder coated (assuming I don't want to keep the old and worn paint). While not as expensive as a good new frame, it would probably still set me back about 200 euros altogether which means I'd still not be able to build it up with anything exceptional (probably around the same quality parts a one of the complete bikes to be honest).

Plus, it's bound to have drawbacks as well... apart from having to find one in the right size, with proper geometry, horizontal(ish) dropouts and in decent state, how good will an old frame actually be? A lot of new cheap bikes get shot down here because they aren't CrMo, does this mean that when looking for an old frame I'd have to know exactly which frames are and aren't good?

So, it seems to me that in the end, building one based on an old frame would not result in a better bike... unless I happen to find a magnificent frame cheap and get lucky on the parts.

So I'm thinking I'll go for a complete, new, bike, unless someone can convince me that it's not the best option (I do think I'd enjoy building my own bike, but I don't really have the time for it so the initial building would be done at the shop. I will be doing most of the maintenance myself either way).

Thanks for all the replies so far... almost there!