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Can Bikesdirect Standover numbers be trusted?

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Can Bikesdirect Standover numbers be trusted?

Old 03-24-14, 05:24 PM
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dmcg
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Can Bikesdirect Standover numbers be trusted?

So I was about ready to buy my first non-BMX bike and thought I had the sizing thing down enough to not worry too much about it, but then I actually measured myself...and it looks like I have short legs for my size. I am 5'10" but my inseam is 29.5" (measured as per the fitting instructions here). I've read a bunch of people on here saying that standover doesn't matter that much, but the assumption for that seems to be that you are spending most of your time riding. I ride mostly in the city, so there is a lot of stop and go traffic, and unfortunately I spend a good chunk of time standing over my bike.

I don't think I need to have a ton of clearance, but I'd like to have some, and that seems to put me on the smallest frame bikes that BikesDirect sells. Even the Dawes SST, with a semi-compact frame, it looks like the 49 is the only size that would give me positive standover height...and they recommend that for people between 4'11" and 5'2"!

Edit: I just measured my wife's mountain bike that I've been riding for the last few months, and coincidentally the standover is exactly 29.5". It's worked mostly fine, but it is just a tad uncomfortable if I'm stopped without leaning the bike over. Makes me think I'd probably not want to go much bigger than that.
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Old 03-24-14, 09:16 PM
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buy a bike that actually fits and lean the bike over when you're standing, problem solved. don't buy a bike that's too small so you can stand over it, would you rather be comfortable riding it (which is what it's for) or standing over it (which is not what it's for). use a fit calculator online, don't judge fit by seat tube size.
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Old 03-24-14, 09:33 PM
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A 49 would be way too small for you, and I bet even 52 would be on the small side... Really, don't worry too much about stand-over...
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Old 03-24-14, 09:46 PM
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Maybe what you need to do is look at mixtes. Standover solved.
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Old 03-24-14, 09:51 PM
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Standover height is completely irrelevant when you're actually riding your bike. Any bike with a correct length to tube will typically be in the correct range as far as other measurements are concerned.

Use a FIT CALCULATOR and see the sticky about bike fit.

/thread

Last edited by Scrodzilla; 03-24-14 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 03-24-14, 09:56 PM
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Check out giant. The escape line would work out great for you. Plentiful standover and long top tubes.

Escape 0 (2014) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States

Escape RX 0 (2013) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States

Escape RX Composite (2014) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States

Escape 3 (2013) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States
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Old 03-24-14, 10:00 PM
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Something tells me he isn't looking for a $1500 hybrid when he's shopping for a $250 fixie. For the record if I was going to get a hybrid it'd probably be an Escape
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Old 03-24-14, 10:03 PM
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It's extremely rare that I have both feet on the ground at any point during a ride, so standover isn't something I pay the least bit of attention to. When you stop, you generally should have one foot on the ground and one on the pedal, so you'd have to be on a seriously mismatched frame to experience standover issues in a real world situation. I go by TT length and have never had problems. The couple times I went by standover (when I was younger and dumber), I ended up with frames that were too small.
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Old 03-24-14, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
Something tells me he isn't looking for a $1500 hybrid when he's shopping for a $250 fixie. For the record if I was going to get a hybrid it'd probably be an Escape
Escape 3 is only $420 with the same geometry as the composite hybrid, including the same generous standover and long top tube he is probably looking for.

I'd pay an extra $170 just for the better fit alone, not to mention the benefits of having a bike shop take care of assembly and maintenance, possibly indefinitely.

Last edited by roadandmountain; 03-24-14 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 03-24-14, 10:53 PM
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why is there so many threads on this lately?

the guy in toys r us was wrong when he told you "your feet should touch the ground when youre on the seat"
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Old 03-25-14, 01:22 AM
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Using any standover measure I've every come across, my Europa is too big ... and has been since the 80s when I bought her ... and it's never been a problem. The Hillbrick is worse because the bottom bracket is higher (being designed for fg, not gears) and guess what, it's never been a problem. It's the fit while riding that's the issue and the important measurement there is the length of the top tube (as it controls your reach with the stem and handlebars the bits you use to adjust that).
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Old 03-25-14, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mumonkan View Post
why is there so many threads on this lately?

the guy in toys r us was wrong when he told you "your feet should touch the ground when youre on the seat"
I had a accident because of that one day. Mind you, it was on a motorcycle. BUT, my feet could both touch the ground when I was on the saddle ... just not when I put a foot down in a pothole I hadn't noticed
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Old 03-25-14, 02:21 AM
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This was quite some time ago, but my first mtn bike was a 19" bike. It probably had less than an inch of standover clearance. I tried riding it off road and it was just too big of a bike. Quick toe dabs were not really possible and the center of gravity was just too high.

I paid more attention to proper sizing the second time around and bought a 16.5" bike. Nice, stretched out top tube, nice standover, toe dabs were fine and a lower center of gravity. Nice bike.

So it's not just standover clearance, but the lower center of gravity a smaller bike affords which is important. Truth be told, my 19" mountain bike wasn't that much fun to ride on road either. The 16.5 was lower to the ground and just a lot more enjoyable to ride, in the same way that a slammed sports car is far more maneuverable than an SUV.

For me, I am unwilling to give up standover clearance to get the correct top tube length, since in doing so, the center of gravity rises, and this to me, leads to very ponderous steering and a generally slow to maneuver bike.
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Old 03-25-14, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
This was quite some time ago, but my first mtn bike was a 19" bike. It probably had less than an inch of standover clearance. I tried riding it off road and it was just too big of a bike. Quick toe dabs were not really possible and the center of gravity was just too high.

I paid more attention to proper sizing the second time around and bought a 16.5" bike. Nice, stretched out top tube, nice standover, toe dabs were fine and a lower center of gravity. Nice bike.

So it's not just standover clearance, but the lower center of gravity a smaller bike affords which is important. Truth be told, my 19" mountain bike wasn't that much fun to ride on road either. The 16.5 was lower to the ground and just a lot more enjoyable to ride, in the same way that a slammed sports car is far more maneuverable than an SUV.

For me, I am unwilling to give up standover clearance to get the correct top tube length, since in doing so, the center of gravity rises, and this to me, leads to very ponderous steering and a generally slow to maneuver bike.
What the hell has the height of the top tube got to do with centre of gravity? Unless it's made of lead, it's meaningless. The height of the bottom bracket will affect the centre of gravity because it pushes the big, fat meaty thing that comprises 90% of the whole package (the rider) higher, and I'm happy to accept that a lower centre of gravity is better, but a smaller frame in itself has no affect at all.
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Old 03-25-14, 06:32 AM
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I appreciate the feedback. I did search for threads discussing standover before posting, and got some of these comments, but I also found a fair number of people who said don't worry about it too much as long as it isn't negative, which it seems all of the bikes I'd be looking at that would normally be my size would be at least an inch or two negative.

Originally Posted by GromCake View Post
buy a bike that actually fits and lean the bike over when you're standing, problem solved. don't buy a bike that's too small so you can stand over it, would you rather be comfortable riding it (which is what it's for) or standing over it (which is not what it's for). use a fit calculator online, don't judge fit by seat tube size.
That might be what the bike is made for, but it's not how it actually gets used when I'm commuting around town. Most of my time is spent stopping, standing, and starting up again. Compared to my BMX, the mountain bike is already hard to get started again, just because I can't stand over the seat. I've occasionally ridden a friend's fixed gear that feels fine when riding, but it is way too tall, and I'm scared every time I have to come to a stop.
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Old 03-25-14, 06:35 AM
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Thanks. Never heard that term before, will have to take a look. I had looked at step through frames, but the ones I had looked at were pretty heavy and seemed hard to carry, which makes them less than ideal since I have a 4th floor walkup.
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Old 03-25-14, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
Standover height is completely irrelevant when you're actually riding your bike. Any bike with a correct length to tube will typically be in the correct range as far as other measurements are concerned.

Use a FIT CALCULATOR and see the sticky about bike fit.

/thread
Thanks. That was the fit calculator I had used and linked to in the OP (that I got from reading the sticky). Going just by the toptube length it suggested puts me on the Kilo TT 60, which would give me -5" of standover height. Even if you say standover shouldn't matter that much, that still seems insane to me.

Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
Something tells me he isn't looking for a $1500 hybrid when he's shopping for a $250 fixie. For the record if I was going to get a hybrid it'd probably be an Escape
Not looking at a $1500 bike, but not necessarily a $250 one either. I just grabbed the Dawes because it was the first semi-compact frame I saw on BikesDirect. Before coming across the standover issue I'd been mostly thinking the Motobecane Fantom Uno WT, the Kilo WT, or the Motobecane "Fixie" Cafe. I'm planning on having a freewheel no matter what I get.

Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
Escape 3 is only $420 with the same geometry as the composite hybrid, including the same generous standover and long top tube he is probably looking for.

I'd pay an extra $170 just for the better fit alone, not to mention the benefits of having a bike shop take care of assembly and maintenance, possibly indefinitely.
Thanks. Will take a look at the Escape 3.

p.s. sorry about the multiple posts earlier, just figured out the multiquote.
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Old 03-25-14, 07:55 AM
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Another quick fit question. I've read that going with a slightly larger size allows for a more relaxed upright riding position, while a smaller size would be more aggressive. I'm having trouble visualizing why this is? It would seem that a longer toptube would keep you farther away from the handlebars, meaning you have to lay over more to reach them? I'm obviously missing something here.
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Old 03-25-14, 08:06 AM
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Get a custom built frame with 20 inch wheels. Problem solved.
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Old 03-25-14, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Get a custom built frame with 20 inch wheels. Problem solved.

I'll have you know I had plenty of clearance on my 24" cruiser

Last edited by dmcg; 03-25-14 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 03-25-14, 08:54 AM
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So I took another look at the specs for the Motobecane Fixie Cafe, and S.O. height is 600mm for the 54cm and effective tt length is pretty close to the 53 Kilo WT, which is 180mm taller. The Cafe had been a top contender for awhile since I like flatbars and now that I know that it is a better fit for my short legs I think that seals the deal. Now I just have to wait for a 54 to come back in stock.
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Old 03-25-14, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dmcg View Post
That might be what the bike is made for, but it's not how it actually gets used when I'm commuting around town. Most of my time is spent stopping, standing, and starting up again. Compared to my BMX, the mountain bike is already hard to get started again, just because I can't stand over the seat. I've occasionally ridden a friend's fixed gear that feels fine when riding, but it is way too tall, and I'm scared every time I have to come to a stop.
If a mountain or road bike fits you, you're not supposed to be able to stand over the seat.
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Old 03-25-14, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
If a mountain or road bike fits you, you're not supposed to be able to stand over the seat.
Yeah, sorry that wasn't very clear. I know you're not supposed to be able to stand over the seat on most normal bikes, but that's how I learned, and now even after months of riding a "real" bike it is still pretty awkward getting started when you have to stand a little forward of the pedals because the seat is in the way. But I'm definitely not looking for a bike that I can clear the seat, just clearing the tt would be great.
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Old 03-25-14, 09:26 AM
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OP - watch this video

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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
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Old 03-25-14, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dmcg View Post
Yeah, sorry that wasn't very clear. I know you're not supposed to be able to stand over the seat on most normal bikes, but that's how I learned, and now even after months of riding a "real" bike it is still pretty awkward getting started when you have to stand a little forward of the pedals because the seat is in the way. But I'm definitely not looking for a bike that I can clear the seat, just clearing the tt would be great.
In that case, learn how to ride a bike properly.
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