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Robbery on SART

Old 11-01-11, 07:30 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
I'd be really tempted to pedal past that same spot every day at the same time, with some sort of plan for retaliation.
+1
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Old 11-01-11, 08:11 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
I'd be really tempted to pedal past that same spot every day at the same time, with some sort of plan for retaliation.
Nachoman: when you meet up with them, say this: "Well punk, do you feel lucky? Make my day". (Inspector Harry Callahan, SFPD) "Dirty Harry".
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Old 11-01-11, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
Nachoman: when you meet up with them, say this: "Well punk, do you feel lucky? Make my day". (Inspector Harry Callahan, SFPD) "Dirty Harry".
That will only work if you are packing this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_29
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Old 11-01-11, 09:32 AM
  #29  
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Thanks for all the care. Good to know the police are making their presence known. I put up signs all over the area. A homeless guy saw the signs and found me. He has heard everything. He thinks its a group of teenagers that 1 of them lives in a house that backs up to the trail, on the east side(the main side where everyone rides). He says they try to start problems for the homeless ocassionally, but have never actually faught them. He also says he has heard of the causing problems on the trail before, but never anything like this. Don't know whether to believe they guy, but will be passing the info onto SAPD and will put fliers all over that neighborhood.
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Old 11-01-11, 10:02 AM
  #30  
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Was it close to sunset when this happened.. I have ridden this trail hundreds of times and other than some odd encounters with homeless people has been pretty good in terms of safety..
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Old 11-01-11, 10:04 AM
  #31  
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It would be nice to be able to go door-to-door to the homes backing up to the path, handing out your fliers...accompanied by a policeman. If the homeless guy is right, you'd probably end up knocking on the door where the punks came from.
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Old 11-01-11, 11:00 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by dstrong View Post
It would be nice to be able to go door-to-door to the homes backing up to the path, handing out your fliers...accompanied by a policeman. If the homeless guy is right, you'd probably end up knocking on the door where the punks came from.
Of course the police don't have time for that. Sadly, it's just a bike and an assault which in Santa Ana equates to a non-crime.
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Old 11-01-11, 11:52 AM
  #33  
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You don't have to be on the trail to have punks take your bike. Its happened here in Downey where teens are riding there bike on the streets and get stopped by two or three idiots and get robbed of there bike, money, phone, anything of value. You can be walking down the street and a car full of robbers will get out and just rip you off and leave in a hurry. Rio Hondo to the Los Angeles river bed south to Shore Line Village is kept free of shrubs and bushes next to the trail to make it hard for anyone to hide in waiting. I do see squad cars from time to time on the riverbed trails. Short of carrying a firearm in a fannie pack its almost impossible to react in time, especially if there are many attackers that knock you off your bike.
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Old 11-01-11, 12:23 PM
  #34  
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I'm really sorry to hear about this. I haven't been commuting back and forth through that area since early September, and I was starting to get nervous about it being dark and who knows who lurking and waiting. I have three little kids at home, and I can take the risk. I'll have to look at some other routes to get from South Coast Plaza to Anaheim Hills.
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Old 11-01-11, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LAriverRat View Post
..........Short of carrying a firearm in a fannie pack its almost impossible to react in time, especially if there are many attackers that knock you off your bike.
If the OP had carried a gun in a fanny pack, odds are he would have also lost the gun. A surprise attack by 6 people is guaranteed to take out anybody, including fictional detectives.
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Old 11-01-11, 12:42 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by P4D View Post
I'm really sorry to hear about this. I haven't been commuting back and forth through that area since early September, and I was starting to get nervous about it being dark and who knows who lurking and waiting. I have three little kids at home, and I can take the risk. I'll have to look at some other routes to get from South Coast Plaza to Anaheim Hills.
Not to say the OP is at fault but the trail hours posted states that during this time of year, the trail closes at 6:00pm or 6:30. Other times of the year later. Maybe the posted times are an attempt to keep people off at dark to avoid these situations.
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Old 11-01-11, 12:52 PM
  #37  
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My issue is, I can't leave at 4:30 to get home while there is still some light, which is going to be the case one we get the time change. The simplest alternate route is Jamboree and a long, long climb all the way home.
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Old 11-01-11, 01:24 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by P4D View Post
My issue is, I can't leave at 4:30 to get home while there is still some light, which is going to be the case one we get the time change. The simplest alternate route is Jamboree and a long, long climb all the way home.
Compromise and use your car and hopefully you have an SUV to put the bike in the back. Then drive part of the way and ride the rest of the way.
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Old 11-01-11, 05:22 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Accordion View Post
Of course the police don't have time for that. Sadly, it's just a bike and an assault which in Santa Ana equates to a non-crime.
I guarantee that the police take robberies and beatings by gangs of thugs VERY seriously. It is true that they've got better things to do than pass out flyers with you.
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Old 11-01-11, 07:21 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
Lets see. I often rode down from Claremont through Azuza, then down to PCH, so in fact it is near South Coast Plaza to me. I would then ride up PCH through Willmington, Long Beach, Redondo Beach and Santa Monica to Malibu, and then over the hills on Latigo Canyon, Decker, or Malibu Canyon to Mulholland, and then down into the San Fernando Valley, then across the foothills in Glendale and Pasadena, and then up GMR and down Mt. Baldy Road before returning home in Claremont..... Maybe you just don't ride the distances I did. South Coast Plaza was simply a landmark that I used to gauge how close I was to PCH and used as a feeding station.

Also, this incident occured around the time of the LA riots and I am sure there were a lot of cops there. I may be wrong about the cop being from SAPD, but I believe that the officer who took my statement was. However, it was around twenty years ago, and I had just been shot at, so I could be wrong about the agency. Either way though, the shootings did take place along that trail, and I refused to ride the south end of it because of it.

I regularly rode through Inglewood, Hawthorne, South Central, Long Beach, and many other cities and neighborhoods that you wouldn't drive through, and the gangs never gave me any trouble. But one teenage crackhead who thought it was fun to take shots out of his bedroom window changed my route and I never enjoyed that trail again.

It sounds from the reports of homeless encampments and outright attacks on normal SART users that thing haven't gotten any better.

Edit: Fixed spelling...
Distances you rode don't mean anything - you don't know the area along the lower reach of the SART and all you're doing is scaring folks away from a great bicycling resource. The SART has areas where it goes through gang turf (like where the OP got attacked), but just avoid those areas in the low light and nighttime hours and your risks of being assaulted are minimal (Minimal, not zero). In over 20 years I've had no problem riding along it. Never had a probelm with the homeless either; they are there, but they sleep up under the overpasses at night then leave in the morning before the place gets crowded, and I've never been threatened by them. FWIW: South Coast Plaza isn't visible from the SART, so don't know how you'd use that as a 'landmark'.

End of my posting on this thread. . .
 
Old 11-01-11, 07:44 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by surfrider View Post
.
As I said before, you are still talking out your a$$.... and from reading the other posts on this thread, twenty years later the lower SART is still not quite the "great bicycling resource" that you claim, with all the homelessness, gang activity, and crime......

I am very sorry to hear that the OP was attacked and that his bike was taken, but I am glad to hear that he is ok. Thing could well have turned out much worse than just losing his bike. I hope that the OC PD agencies begin to do a better job of safeguarding the SART, but I doubt it because it is "below the grid".


My previous posts have all been deleted out of respect to the OP because after my first post, our discussion went far off-topic for this thread......

Last edited by Stealthammer; 11-03-11 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 11-01-11, 07:50 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by P4D View Post
I'm really sorry to hear about this. I haven't been commuting back and forth through that area since early September, and I was starting to get nervous about it being dark and who knows who lurking and waiting. I have three little kids at home, and I can take the risk. I'll have to look at some other routes to get from South Coast Plaza to Anaheim Hills.
then you would be letting the cretins win

again, get an old steel road bike, convert it to fixed gear or singlespeed (runs well/looks crappy) and continue your commute

if stabba anna really scares you at night, go ninja steez and before they know you were there, you are already gone

those little hoodlums are stupid and predictable, so just don't be stupid or predictable and you should be alright (not saying toobsz was being either)

i ran up and down that bike path all hours of the day and night for six years and was never jacked
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Old 11-01-11, 08:17 PM
  #43  
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I'm sure the homeless get victimized there all the time. Most have some kind of disability. This sounds more predatory. Why would they volunteer info? This happened in thier home. Glad you are OK.
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Old 11-01-11, 08:30 PM
  #44  
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Man, that sucks. I try to commute once or twice a week, don't have to take SART but if don't feel too tired I do to add miles. Few days ago I was just thinking how nice and peaceful would be to take a long ride in the dark.

Right know I have a temporary job (thanks to Obama) where we provide help to low income families in oc, this has led me to experience Santa Ana more than I ever wanted to do Most cockroaches' activity stems from the mobile home parks around 1st and the River Trail. I'd start by posting reward signs w/ pics around there.

Crime there is a matter of opportunity which leads me believe they *have* to live in close proximity to the SART.
Good luck.
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Old 11-01-11, 09:10 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Flying Merkel View Post
If the OP had carried a gun in a fanny pack, odds are he would have also lost the gun.
^^^ This. In states with liberal gun ownership laws (I believe gun in the fanny pack would be a concealed weapon?) the number of reported stolen handguns is pretty amazing. While most people intend on protecting themselves from thieves, they mostly just provide a good source for cheap weaponry.
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Old 11-01-11, 10:06 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by haaseg View Post
^^^ This. In states with liberal gun ownership laws (I believe gun in the fanny pack would be a concealed weapon?) the number of reported stolen handguns is pretty amazing. While most people intend on protecting themselves from thieves, they mostly just provide a good source for cheap weaponry.
Can you provide source data for this statement? I'd love to read the study.
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Old 11-01-11, 10:28 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Can you provide source data for this statement? I'd love to read the study.
I'd have to dig to find some of the original legitimate sources, but this article will give you a teaser:

https://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...uns-gun-buyers


Also, it's not in the best format: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/GUIC.TXT

* According to the 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those inmates who possessed a handgun, 9% had acquired it through theft and 28% had acquired it through an illegal market such as a drug dealer or fence. Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least one gun, and 11% had sold or traded stolen guns. * Studies of adult and juvenile offenders that the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services conducted in 1992 and 1993 found that 15% of the adult offenders and 19% of the juvenile offenders had stolen guns; 16% of the adults and 24% of the juveniles had kept a stolen gun; and 20% of the adults and 30% of the juveniles had sold or traded a stolen gun. * From a sample of juvenile inmates in four States, Sheley and Wright found that more than 50% had stolen a gun at least once in their lives and 24% had stolen their most recently obtained handgun. They concluded that theft and burglary were the original, not always the proximate, source of many guns acquired by the juveniles.
[edit]removed original link and replaced with source[/edit]

Last edited by haaseg; 11-01-11 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 11-01-11, 11:44 PM
  #48  
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Frankly, in the OP's case even if he had a gun in his hand (never mind the practicality) he would have been unable to do anything useful with it. Being swarmed by six guys by surprise will overwhelm anybody. A gun is a tool with a narrow range of usefullness, not a security blanket. One bad side effect of gun ownership is overconfidence. Buddy of mine always carried his gun in a fanny pack to shoot mountain lions in case of attack at the local park (Casper's Wildlife park off Ortega highway) Guy weighed about 275. A mountain lion is a carnivore that hunts by stealth. 50,000 years of evolution have given the big cat physical capabilities far beyond a human's. Had he been able took wrap his flippers around his pistol, the chance of him hitting his child or wife with a stray shot are significant. Best to change one's behavior rather than blunder about blindly trusting in inanimate hardware.

I'm not anti-gun. Believe fully in the Second Amendment. Just trying to be coldly practical.
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Old 11-01-11, 11:53 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by haaseg View Post
I'd have to dig to find some of the original legitimate sources, but this article will give you a teaser:

https://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...uns-gun-buyers


Also, it's not in the best format: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/GUIC.TXT


[edit]removed original link and replaced with source[/edit]
Interesting, thanks. I see that your quoted excerpt is from the second, government link. And I readily see that a percentage of criminals are using stolen guns. But other than the Florida newspaper article making the inference, I do not see a link in the government compiled statistics that supports your statement

"....In states with liberal gun ownership laws (I believe gun in the fanny pack would be a concealed weapon?) the number of reported stolen handguns is pretty amazing. While most people intend on protecting themselves from thieves, they mostly just provide a good source for cheap weaponry."

Don't get me wrong..... I completely agree that in this particular ambush, had he a hand gun in a fanny pack, it would have ended up in the wrong hands. I was just wondering how you came to the conclusion you did. Now, I know.
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Old 11-02-11, 12:58 AM
  #50  
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Actually, I don't think there's a direct link between the laws and the number of stolen guns. I think it's all inferred. Texas, Georgia and Florida all have minimal gun control laws - no permit required, open carry, etc. and are top exporters of guns used in crimes. One kind of interesting site I've found is this one: https://www.tracetheguns.org/#

You'll see for example that states with the most gun laws export the fewest guns to crime (e.g. New York) whereas the states with the fewest laws export the most. This is not STOLEN gun data though - most of this is probably attributed to gun show sales and sales of handguns without a permit.

I'm not anti-gun. The only reason I don't own one is because I don't have a place to store one securely, and because before I bought a nice gun, I'd buy a nice pair of Sidi's or something. And I'd never get out to the shooting range because I spend too much time on the bike.
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