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Why are you people doing that!???

Old 03-05-12, 10:17 AM
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Why are you people doing that!???

Sunday did a ride with friends and used the upper part of SART past Yorba Regional Park towards Green River. Came across what apparently is a new trend which I think is extremely dangerous. Just past Yorba is a short but steep climb onto Yorba Linda/Orangethorpe Blvd towards Green River. Because the bike path continues on sidewalk for a short distance, I will go out onto the street so cyclists riding south/west can continue on the bike path. As I was out on the street, an alarming number of cyclists were actually also on the street going against traffic!!! Totally the wrong thing to do! Either cross to the other side of the road or stay on the bike path. In addition, know what to do. I had the right of way and stayed as close to the curb as possible, however, the wrong way cyclists apparently did not know they were obligated to take the outside line. Two cyclists decided to play chicken with me. One was a tandem and bottom line if we hit, I would get hurt so I was forced, last minute to swing out. Second one I held my line. I assume the other cyclist thought I was being rude...oh well.

There is another thread about more and more new cyclists. I am happy to see so many people embrace the sports but sadly, many have no clue about road rules. They don't call out; annouce when passing, take the right side of the road, know who has right of way etc.

It doesn't take 5 minutes to read any number of articles about proper road etiquette. If you don't know, please take the time to read them.
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Old 03-05-12, 10:37 AM
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I know that section. I think most cyclists avoid to the trail due to how rough it is. I'm guilty of doing this but I was nowhere near the SART this weekend so it wasn't me. I do it because I want to get past that section as fast as possible and the trail is very bumpy. It is a very wide shoulder and if I do see an oncoming cyclist, I give them alot of space. I normally get a friendly hello, or nod.

As far as announcing. I do not do it all the time and here's why. If they look like they're experienced cyclists I usually do, but seriously, most recreational cyclists, especially those with kids. I've found that its better just to zoom by as fast as possible. Most of the time I announce myself, I will cause them to panic and swerve.

Last edited by Genaro; 03-05-12 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 03-05-12, 10:45 AM
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Don't ride against traffic! "Salmon" riders kill! And if you encounter slower riders on the MUP it is your duty to pass them safely.
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Old 03-05-12, 10:56 AM
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There is a section near the Back Bay in Newport Beach where folks are forced onto a sidewalk for a short bit before going back onto the trail. Drives me nutty too when folks ride the wrong way on the road.

Back in my running days I would often run against traffic in the bike lane and would swing wide giving oncoming riders/runners the inside. However if there is oncoming traffic (which I can see and folks going with traffic can't) I'd jump back on the sidewalk. My point is folks may not swing wide if cars are coming so be prepared to play chicken...
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Old 03-05-12, 11:37 AM
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That's La Palma isn't it? Right in front of those shops? Or are you talking about further down where they previously blocked off the bike lane and forced everybody into the street (inside cement barriers mind you) for a while before Gypsum Canyon cross over.

I hear ya though, that's just a bad idea.
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Old 03-05-12, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pamestique
Came across what apparently is a new trend which I think is extremely dangerous.:
This isn't new. I rode that section twice a week for years since 02-03 and riders have always done this since that time, before I am sure.


Originally Posted by Pamestique
I will go out onto the street so cyclists riding south/west can continue on the bike path.
So you go out onto the street so that other cyclists can use the path?

First of all, the path is along the edge of the road, it is not a sidewalk. Sounds like you added to the problem. Why ride the path if you plan to exit the path so that others can use the path? Why ride the path in the first place?

Secondly, other than wanting to avoid the short steep climb, there is no reason why a rider should go out on the street in the first place. The path is wide enough to accomodate traffic in both directions. Maybe it would benefit you to stay on the path avoiding the whole unsafe issue.

This is the section in question. Riders that hop onto La Palma do so in order to avoid the short steep climb.


Capture1 by gulpxtreme, on Flickr

A closer view. Is there really a reason to hop onto out into the street so that "other cyclists can use the path"? If it is safer to do the climb, then do the climb. There is plenty of room for two riders. Rider in the pic doesn't seem to be taking up the entire width of the trail at this point or the section heading off to the right.


Capture2 by gulpxtreme, on Flickr

Markings on the "path" showing it is not a sidewalk. That car looks like it could easily fit on the path. Like I said, stay on the path if one feels unsafe. There is no reason to exit the path in the first place other than wanting to avoid the short steep climb.



Capture3 by gulpxtreme, on Flickr

Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 03-05-12 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 03-05-12, 01:05 PM
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Beanz, I was in the right to be on the road. That section of the bike trail is narrow and I exit because I have have encounters with squirrelly riders coming South. Since they would have to go to the other side of the street (at least I would if I took the road) it makes sense to let them have the path and I take the road but next time screw it, I will stay on the path.

I've ridden that section as long as I can remember and its never been a problem. That was the first time ever I saw riders going "salmon". It's an expensive ticket if caught and it could cause an accident. I just don't see why people do it.
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Old 03-05-12, 01:12 PM
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I practically live on the SART, riding that section probably 3-4 times a week, and I'm with Pamestique. Riders going north can certainly pop over onto the road, no biggie, plus it probably makes the intersection a little safer since you're less likely to get right hooked. Riders going south need to stay on the path. It's not *that* bumpy, come on now.

It's never really bothered me much what people do there...but since there's a thread on here about it I'm chipping in my 2 cents.
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Old 03-05-12, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Pamestique
Beanz, I was in the right to be on the road.
Of course you were. All I am saying is you have the choice, cautious on the trail (as one should be) or face confusion on the road.

I myself have no problem or confusion as this seems to almost be the norm in that area. Not that it is legally, politically, religiously, or morally correct, they do it and have been doing it.

We take the road heading north in order to avoid the hill (Gina's sake) but I don't debate or fight with oncoming riders, that will only cause more confusion. You want the inside? I don't care, the outside? Take it. Just don' hit me. The road is WIDE there so it is no biggie to me.

If you want to debate the issue with riders, you'll have someone to debate every 5 mintues, cause they do it. Again, not saying it's correct, but they do it, be careful! If it meant staying on the path to feel safe, we would and do on the return (south).
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Old 03-05-12, 02:43 PM
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they do this to avoid a lil bumpy hill? c'mon now

HTFU and ride
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Old 03-05-12, 03:24 PM
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Re that hill... that little hill was the at least of any climbs I had Sunday (we were riding all around and over Yorba Linda). It is barely a bump and not difficult to do. I avoid that whole section altogether because of the fact many people of varying degrees of expertise ride that section and I have had too many close calls. If the only people riding were "experts" than it wouldn't be an issue. I love the fact that people are getting into riding but again, newbies can be dangerous to themselves and others because of lack of control and no knowledge of road rules. Frankly I try and avoid bike paths and trails during the weekend but on Sunday I was with a newbie friend who preferred as much path as possible. I prefer to stay in the street... anyway... now I know... most likely I will avoid that area all together. People just be careful out there.
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Old 03-05-12, 04:08 PM
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Thanks for pointing that out Pam! I actually almost never ride SART, but I'll keep that in mind next time I do.

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Old 03-05-12, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Pamestique
Just past Yorba is a short but steep climb onto Yorba Linda/Orangethorpe Blvd towards Green River.
I'm very familiar with that area, and was having trouble wrapping my head around your description. As someone else said - this is where the SART meets La Palma, I think.

I've seen cyclists doing that for years. Fortunately, the shoulder there is nice and wide.
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Old 03-06-12, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz
Of course you were. All I am saying is you have the choice, cautious on the trail (as one should be) or face confusion on the road.

I myself have no problem or confusion as this seems to almost be the norm in that area. Not that it is legally, politically, religiously, or morally correct, they do it and have been doing it.

We take the road heading north in order to avoid the hill (Gina's sake) but I don't debate or fight with oncoming riders, that will only cause more confusion. You want the inside? I don't care, the outside? Take it. Just don' hit me. The road is WIDE there so it is no biggie to me.

If you want to debate the issue with riders, you'll have someone to debate every 5 mintues, cause they do it. Again, not saying it's correct, but they do it, be careful! If it meant staying on the path to feel safe, we would and do on the return (south).
I'm confused as to how you avoid the hill? I thought that is the only way to continue on SART in that area. I see people riding both ways on that section of road and personally i dont see the issue as its only a couple hundred yards and that section next to La Palma is narrow and does have a lot of walkers on it too.
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Old 03-06-12, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TJClay
I'm confused as to how you avoid the hill? I thought that is the only way to continue on SART in that area. I see people riding both ways on that section of road and personally i dont see the issue as its only a couple hundred yards and that section next to La Palma is narrow and does have a lot of walkers on it too.
I was thinking the same. You still have to go down or up that little hill next to Yorba park.
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Old 03-06-12, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Genaro
I was thinking the same. You still have to go down or up that little hill next to Yorba park.
You may be confused thinking of the wrong hills?

Clarification

Violet color is Genaro hill...I'm guessing this is the hill you refer. Yes you have to climb it to stay on trail

Yellow is where riders take the wrong side of the street.

Red is the short little hill rider avoid while heading to green river by going out onto the street rather than staying on path, short fast downhill then the short little climb (30 yards maybe)

Extra credit.........turquoise color..I have seen some riders take the ramp up to La Palma in order to avoid climbing Genaro Hill.



avoid by gulpxtreme, on Flickr


Closer view now that you know the strip:

Riders heading in both directions avoid this strip so they don't have to do the short little 30 yard climb of this underpass type dip (violet).


avoid2 by gulpxtreme, on Flickr
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Old 03-06-12, 01:11 PM
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Oh... those were hills? When I first rode that section... i was really confused and wasn't sure what to do... they need better road markings, etc on there so these type of confusion doesn't happen... Which city does this section fall under? Let's send an e-mail to let city know
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Old 03-06-12, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz
You may be confused thinking of the wrong hills?

Clarification

Violet color is Genaro hill...I'm guessing this is the hill you refer. Yes you have to climb it to stay on trail

Yellow is where riders take the wrong side of the street.

Red is the short little hill rider avoid while heading to green river by going out onto the street rather than staying on path, short fast downhill then the short little climb (30 yards maybe)

Extra credit.........turquoise color..I have seen some riders take the ramp up to La Palma in order to avoid climbing Genaro Hill.



avoid by gulpxtreme, on Flickr


Closer view now that you know the strip:

Riders heading in both directions avoid this strip so they don't have to do the short little 30 yard climb of this underpass type dip (violet).


avoid2 by gulpxtreme, on Flickr
That explains it all................are you sure you're not a teacher?
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Old 03-06-12, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TJClay
That explains it all................are you sure you're not a teacher?
I've taught many people man things but have never gotten paid for it. Except Gina, I taught her what love is and it paid off.
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Old 03-06-12, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz
I taught her what love is and it paid off.
Oh dear lord GET A ROOM!

I don't understand why anybody would feel the need to avoid that little dinky hill. I thought we were talking about riding on the street to avoid riding on the sidewalk that isn't a sidewalk, which you MUST do the way the path is currently configured. Hopefully they'll finish doing whatever it is they're doing soon.
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Old 03-06-12, 05:42 PM
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Thanks Beanz, I've always wanted a climb named after me. What category would it fall under ?
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Old 03-06-12, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by genaro
thanks beanz, i've always wanted a climb named after me. What category would it fall under ?
"tough" !
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Old 03-06-12, 08:31 PM
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First, there will always be riders who ride against traffic. Some do it because they are lazy and others out of ignorance.

Second, Please correct the terminology being used for that "BUMP". It is blasphemous to be calling it a hill.
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Old 03-06-12, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Genaro
Thanks Beanz, I've always wanted a climb named after me. What category would it fall under ?
You know, somebody marked it as a strava segment. I thought it was strange since it's what, 100 yards long? Sadly strava didn't have a rank for it...probably because its beyond HC in toughness.

Guess who the king of the mountain is.
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Old 03-07-12, 10:21 AM
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JMX, I think a Polk-a-dot jersey awaits you
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