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Di2 Display

Old 04-04-16, 08:33 AM
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oldacura
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Di2 Display

Just took the new Calfee Di2 out for a shakedown ride. This is my first experience with Di2. Our old Co-Motion had regular cable-operated Ultegra derailleurs (3x8) . My observations:

1) I don't have a feel for what gear I'm in.
2) I was constantly shifting the wrong direction (e.g. up instead of down).
3) The chain rubs on the front der cage with front small ring and any of the 3 outboard cogs of the cassette.

So far, I'm not very pleased.

To correct these I'm guessing:

1) Get a Di2 display. Is there one that is recommended? Do these have a graphic representation of front & rear gear position?
2) Get used to the Di2 system until it is second nature about which button does what.
3) Adjust or have adjusted the Di2 system to minimize chainline noise. The dealer that we bought the bike from is not local so I either need to learn to adjust it myself or take it to my LBS (non-tandem) & have them adjust it.

Thank you in advance for your suggestions & experience.
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Old 04-04-16, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by oldacura View Post

To correct these I'm guessing:

1) Get a Di2 display. Is there one that is recommended? Do these have a graphic representation of front & rear gear position?
2) Get used to the Di2 system until it is second nature about which button does what.
3) Adjust or have adjusted the Di2 system to minimize chainline noise. The dealer that we bought the bike from is not local so I either need to learn to adjust it myself or take it to my LBS (non-tandem) & have them adjust it.

Thank you in advance for your suggestions & experience.
1) Garmin Edge 1000:



The top line is the gear indicator. You will need a D-fly unit for that to work.

2) Buttons are set up similar to Shimano cable shifters. But, they are programmable to most any sequence you want. This will require a programming unit or a visit to your dealer if you don't have one.

3) Adjustments are easy by yourself without any additional hardware. Worth learning and you only have to do once.
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Old 04-04-16, 10:32 AM
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The Shimano Di2 Dealer's Manual pdf is easy to follow. The adjustments are easy, and the directions are step-by-step simple.

Download it here. You want the DM-UL0001 manual.

~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTE--I don't have a tandem. Do you have two chainrings? or is there a way to use a triple with Di2?

I get clicking when cross chained 34 front and 11 rear. The chain is hitting the pickup pins on the big chainring. I never get derailleur cage rubbing.

You'll get used to the new buttons after a couple of rides. I switch between Di2 and Campagnolo thumb shifters on my other bike, and the transition is pretty easy for me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-tube software

I used the free E-tube software to:

1. Change a "long press" (1/2 second or longer) to be "shift 3" instead of "shift all cogs". Now, at the base of a hill, two long presses of the bottom buttons shifts to the 34 front, and 3 harder gears on the back, just right for the upcoming hill. And two long presses of the top buttons do the opposite.

2. Update the firmware. "I updated my bike's firmware" isn't a sentence I ever expected to say!

The Di2 charging unit just plugs into your PC, and the E-tube software works through that cable. Easy.

Last edited by rm -rf; 04-04-16 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 04-04-16, 10:35 AM
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Congrats on your new Calfee!!! We also just ordered a Di2 Tetra ourselves and asked for the D-Fly addon ($60 or so) for that very reason. The D-Fly easily wires in and attaches to your rear chainstay. FYI, it also transmits DI2 battery level via ANT+ which can be received by Garmin Edge 810 and 1000 models. From what I've read and youtubed, the setup just takes a few minutes. I'd think this is a huge plus for tandemers... somewhat similar to the extinct Shimano Flight-Decks.
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Old 04-04-16, 11:05 AM
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You can also get a Shimano XTR di2 display to put inline if you don't want to add the Garmin and or D-fly . It goes in place of the front junction box at the handlebars. You can set the length of time it displays before it goes to sleep Every time you shift it will display for that set amount of time. My guess is you are hearing the chain hitting the pickup pins when cross chained like that. What cranks and chainrings are you using and how wide of range of cassette. We are using the Paxis rings and 11-36 or on major climb tours a 11-40 with our Di2 and it doesn't like the severe cross chain of the small chain ring however we can completely cross chain the large chainring without issue. Once you have it adjusted properly it shifts amazingly well.
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Old 04-04-16, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jnjtandem View Post
Congrats on your new Calfee!!! We also just ordered a Di2 Tetra ourselves and asked for the D-Fly addon ($60 or so) for that very reason. The D-Fly easily wires in and attaches to your rear chainstay. FYI, it also transmits DI2 battery level via ANT+ which can be received by Garmin Edge 810 and 1000 models. From what I've read and youtubed, the setup just takes a few minutes. I'd think this is a huge plus for tandemers... somewhat similar to the extinct Shimano Flight-Decks.
If you have a coupled tandem, then just hide the D-Fly unit inside your frame along with your internal junction box. I am not quite sure on the carbon bike, but the signal works fine with a titanium frame.
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Old 04-04-16, 01:40 PM
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Don't understand what a D-Fly unit is or does. We could get a fully featured Garmin unit but right now, I'm really only interested in gear position (front & rear) and maybe battery life. The other things that I might be interested in are current speed, distance, average speed and maybe max speed. The other stuff that fully featured devices offer, I'm not really interested in. I'm not one to download & keep track of rides.

Our bike is not coupled.

Also, I will check what you suggest about the pick-up pins. Maybe that is what is making the noise. In that event, the precise location of the front derailleur won't matter.

I don't recall what cranks & rings we have. I will look tonight. Is it possible that the big ring might need to be moved slightly outboard?

Thanks
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Old 04-04-16, 04:11 PM
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The cost of the XTR display that I posted the picture of on our bike is $79 on the web and does all you want. The d-fly is a ant transmitting unit , cost is $55 plus a cable then you need a Garmin unit to talk to for an additional $350-500. You can get a very simple Garmin for the other data for much less. I doubt that your outer chain ring position is wrong. It is more of a function of the large difference in diameters of the two chainring setup. You might be able to do some tweeting to allow it to only be a problem in the 2 smallest cogs. However there is really no reason to be in those combinations and would allow for a lot of chain slack.
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Old 04-04-16, 04:42 PM
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My small-small cross chain still works, the noise is annoying, that's all. And it's only on the smallest cog for me.

You don't want to move the big ring outward, the spacing between rings is critical.

To test: Off the bike, shift to the small-small combination. Slide a dollar bill in between the front derailleur cage and the chain to verify it's not touching. I can see a gap of maybe 1mm, or about the thickness of the chain plate.

Hmm, I just tried pedaling with the rear wheel off the ground. It's really hard to notice the contact then.

But I do see and hear it if I'm off the bike, wheels on the ground, and pedal backward very slowly. I'm crouched down to watch the chain. As the big chainring's lift pins come around, they bump the top chain just slightly. Oh, now I see that shifting to the second smallest cog also barely contacts the pins. But I don't notice this second cog contact when riding.

Last edited by rm -rf; 04-04-16 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 04-05-16, 12:41 AM
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We're using the XTR gear display/junction box on our tandem. It's very simple to install, just unplug the cables from your current junction box and plug them into the XTR junction box. On a single bike, I have the Di2 D-Fly transmitter hooked up to an Edge 1000, but since I'm not always using the same screen on the Edge 1000, this is not as practical or as easy to read as the XTR display. Also, there are no problems putting the XTR display in an otherwise Ultegra Di2 system.
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Old 04-05-16, 06:52 AM
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Does the XTR gear display / junction box give an indication of both the front and rear derailleur (or just rear)?

I've never set up a chainline on a bike (& I did not set this one up). Is there any ability to move either the cassette or the crank inboard or outboard to align the two to each other? If so, how does one determine the optimum centering?
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Old 04-05-16, 10:39 AM
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The XTR displays both. If you look at the picture I posted above you can see a small L next to the number to signify the large chainring. You can not move the cassette but maybe able to move the crank inboard or outboard. Need to know what crankset you have. Did Calfee do the final build or a dealer as Rob at Calfee is pretty meticulous on that stuff.

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Old 04-05-16, 10:54 AM
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Ok - thanks.

L = Large. Will this display S = Small?

Crankset is FSA SL-K Light

Bike was built by Calfee distributor - Not by Calfee.
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Old 04-05-16, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by oldacura View Post
Ok - thanks.

L = Large. Will this display S = Small?

Crankset is FSA SL-K Light

Bike was built by Calfee distributor - Not by Calfee.
The Di2 display shows L = low, T = top (for 2 chainrings).

With an 11spd and rear spacing wider than 130mm, it is not unusual to have the chain hit the big ring when using the granny with the outer 3 rear cogs. Chainline will vary depending on rear spacing, crankset spacing and chainstay length. We run a narrow double crankset with 142/12 thru axle (same cassette location as with a 135mm disc hub) with 48/30 chainrings and I also ignore the outer 3 rear cogs when in the granny. When properly adjusted for all usable gear combos, the FD may still rub slightly when in the granny-11t, but that is irrelevant as you should never ride in this gear anyway. Adjusted for all other gearing, the FD should not rub at all.
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Old 04-05-16, 12:26 PM
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Looks like I can get a Shimano SC-M9050 Di2 XTR display on Amazon for $80. Is there only one display unit available?

I have not looked into progamming the shift switches. My "muscle memory" from mechanical shifters tells my brain that the forward switch moves to a larger cog & the rearward switch moves to a smaller cog. Though this seems less than intuitive, that is dictated by how mechanical shifters work.

Have others found some other arrangement better? Is this a little like using a QWERTY keyboard on a smartphone? If I select some other arrangement, will I have trouble switching back & forth between Di2 & a bike with mechanical shifters?
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Old 04-05-16, 01:09 PM
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thats the display

You will quickly become used to the shifters it is intuitive after a short while. I change my programing so if you hold the button longer it shifts multiple cogs.
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Old 04-06-16, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by twocicle View Post
The Di2 display shows L = low, T = top (for 2 chainrings).
For me, this is the one annoyance about the XTR display. Low and high are natural opposite. Top and Bottom are naturally opposites. Low and top are an odd mix to choose, but I guess it was chosen by a Japanese person. It's certainly not a problem, but it's not ideal IMO.

With integrated axle cranksets, there is not much you can do about chainline; the only option is to move spacers from one end of the axle to the other, but often there are no spacers so you have no options.
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Old 04-06-16, 06:45 AM
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Anything about waterproofness with any of the units mentioned?
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Old 04-06-16, 06:58 AM
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I just ordered the XTR Di2 Display. I'm assuming that because it is intended for use on a mountain bike, it is sufficiently waterproof.
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Old 04-06-16, 08:27 AM
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I believe that all di2 components are sufficiently waterproof.

But as with all things electrical there will be a time when a seal dries up/gets hard and you will start having little issues here and there. I wouldn't plan on it happening any time soon though.
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Old 04-06-16, 12:14 PM
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I'd like to ask a general purpose question about tandem computers. I've got a new tandem on the way and am wrestling with how much computer I need. My wife and I will be putting the bike on the car and driving to different places to ride the tandem, places we've never been before. I've gotten by without a GPS on my bike for the last 40 years and generally like to keep things simple (recently I've been diligent about using my cell phone to upload all my miles to Strava just so I can get a yearly tally). But the tandem is going to be a game changer in my mental approach to cycling. Feeling that change coming I can see how cool it would be to have a Garmin or some such GPS to keep things safe and fun and maybe even more spontaneous. For those of you with this type of computer, on a scale of 1-10, how important is it to your tandem experience?
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Old 04-06-16, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mayonnaise View Post
I'd like to ask a general purpose question about tandem computers. I've got a new tandem on the way and am wrestling with how much computer I need. My wife and I will be putting the bike on the car and driving to different places to ride the tandem, places we've never been before. I've gotten by without a GPS on my bike for the last 40 years and generally like to keep things simple (recently I've been diligent about using my cell phone to upload all my miles to Strava just so I can get a yearly tally). But the tandem is going to be a game changer in my mental approach to cycling. Feeling that change coming I can see how cool it would be to have a Garmin or some such GPS to keep things safe and fun and maybe even more spontaneous. For those of you with this type of computer, on a scale of 1-10, how important is it to your tandem experience?
I have the Garmin Edge 810 and my wife has a Bontrager Node 1.1. On a scale of 1-10, I would have to vote 10 for the GPS equipped Edge 810. We were at a tandem rally a few years ago and we missed a turn as well as several others and we did not know where we were. I made up my mind that from that point forward we would have a GPS unit on the bike. On another rally we were with a group who had missed some arrows and the GPS took us on the route. We will not ride without it. I have GPS in the car and had it on our Honda Goldwing.
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Old 04-06-16, 03:53 PM
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How important is a GPS for your drives?
Some people prefer maps and atlases, we would not drive anywhere new without our GPS.
The same applies to our bike. They are so much better than the map and cue sheets.
All the rallies we have been to lately have TCX files that you can download to your GPS for turn by turn direction.
We tried the handlebar mounted phone route. But the Garmin is so much more convenient, has longer battery life, and is much easier to read outdoor than the phone. I like the Edge 1000. Initially I thought it was a little pricey, but the big screen is great for my aging eyes and I am enjoying the new functionality that Garmin has continually added.

As my wife keeps reminding me, I am a little too OCD about my bikes. I like the cockpit clean and uncluttered. I worked hard to to hide all the wires and junction boxes, I could not justify adding an XTR display. Besides the D-Fly unit is less expensive, is hidden away from the elements and have less chance of failure. And, the E1000 screen has plenty of real estate for the gear indicator, even on multiple screens if needed.



If that was not geeky enough, check out my new toy:



It is a radar sensor that wirelessly connect to my Garmin display. It warns me of the number of cars behind me and how fast they are approaching before I can even hear their engine. They have the small LEDs that brighten and blink faster as the car approaches, but I found those to be insufficiently bright to do any good. So I added my own random blinkers.
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Old 04-07-16, 10:23 AM
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I guess that I'm more old-school than others when it comes to electronics. We almost always ride in familiar territory so an map function is unnecessary. Stuff like power output etc. will only confirm that I am getting older & slower.

We have really only ridden around the block with the new bike & Di2. I hope that I don't regret this decision. One think that I like about bikes is that they are one of the last truly mechanical toys available. Now I have allowed electronics to creep into this and it is not just a gadget - it is integral to the functioning of the bike.

I just rode my older single bike yesterday. It is 2 x 10 Durace. I can run small front ring with all but the smallest rear cog with no noise. Now it appears that on the tandem I can't use any of the 3 smallest rear cogs with the small front ring. Is this because of Di2 or something else? If this is a compromise of Di2 why is this not made clear by Shimano and all of the early adopters?
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Old 04-07-16, 10:54 AM
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have a chat with the person who built your bike.

the di2 bikes I have ridden are totally flawless and silent. I assume you have something odd happening with chain line/setup with your tandem that is making it work undesirably.
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