I have been lurking on the Tandem forum for a month or so and have enjoyed all the info ... especially for folks who are looking to get a tandem for the first time. I frequent the Road Cycling forum daily.

I have been riding for 16yrs and have a Trek 5200 (1992 model). I am 5' 7" with a 29" inseam and weigh 170lbs.

I have introduced my GF to road cycling ... her first experience other than riding as a kid on a 10-speed. I bought her a Schwinn Fast Back Small. She is 5' 4" tall with a 27.5" inseam and 120lbs.

Together, we have ridden about 550 miles this year and I've been coaching her thru the experience. She is doing well overall. She started out averaging 12mph over a 10 to 20 mile ride. Now, she's in the mid 13's over a 20 to 30 mile range.

Given I've coached and brought 7 or 8 folks into the sport over the years ... most of them averaging in the 14's and 15' within 500 miles or so at their "own" discretion, I thought maybe my GF wasn't putting in enough effort as she isn't into sports or exercise all that much. Well, to my amazement, I put a HR Monitor on her and she is riding in a range of 160 to 190 and avg'g around 13.5 on a typical 25 mile ride. So, she IS in fact putting in effort.

So, I'm TRYING to talk her into considering a Tandem. She has seen a few of them when the club riders are around us ... and I know all of them due being in the club for many years. But, she is somewhat reluctant to try it.

I think she'd really like it overall however ... being able to ride farther, faster, and more frequently.

Two questions:

1. Is it true that, generally speaking, that if when taking to solo riders and put them on a tandem, their overall speed/avg will be just a notch above the fastest riders normal speed/avg? It seems like I read that on this forum on in a magazine. So, if my normal average riding solo with no drafts is 16 to 17.5 ... then riding together with the same effort on both our parts would yield us those results if not just a little quicker?

2. I will only have about $1000 to $1200 for a tandem. Uggh!! I have been around tandems for years (since 1990 or so) and I have a decent road bike. So, going BACK to something that is of lower quality, heavier, etc. is not something I want to do. But, I also can't afford the new Cannondale for $2700 or so from my local LBS. I'd like at least 105 if not some Ultegra, etc. I don't see many used tandems in our area either. What are some of my options?

Any suggestions, recommendations, etc. form folks who have gone thru similar experiences are appreciated and welcomed.

Great forum! ;)

1. It doesn't sound to me like it would be very much fun to ride on a tandem with someone who wanted me to wear a heartrate monitor to know if I was working hard enough.

2. There are people who ride a tandem because they want to go faster. At last count I believe there were 6 such teams in the United States. The rest of the tandem riders do so for more social reasons. Generally they are couples with differing physical abilities and average a speed somewhrere in between what they would each average on single bikes.

3. You might try subscribing to the Tandem Club of America newsletter to find a suitable used tandem.

Thanks Retro for the feedback. #1 makes me sound sort of like a jerk. Sorry. It's really not like that. A HR monitor as you already know is a good indicator of where your own personal effort and abilities are unfolding at any given point in time and/or over a given ride, etc. It was just nice to see that she was really trying to put in an effort instead of just moseying (sp?) along. I'm a patient person when it comes to introducing the sport, etc.

My purpose in using the term "ride or go faster" has to do with being able to ride farther, but also to get a better workout when riding. Currently, when riding with my GF, my heart rate isn't showing me that I'm getting much out of the exercise compared to what I would if I was riding my own speed/distance.

Please don't take my words as though I'm only into speed, etc. and can't stand to just enjoy a ride. I've been doing this for a long time and I'm no newbie or young'n any longer. ;)

Hi Brian!

Regarding your question on the speed of the tandem team. I think there is the potential for the average speed to be a notch above that of the stronger rider, but I don't think it's quite that simple.

My wife and I have about 350 miles on our new C'dale so we're not seasoned, but here's what I've experienced on our training rides/tours (32 miles and 50 miles).

Our average speed is lower than I would have had on my single.

That's the short answer, here's what I think is going on. I believe that Kris and I are still coming to a compromise on cadence. I have done lots of centuries and have dabbled in racing so I'm a spinner...85rpm feels slow. Kris is more recreational, although she has completed centuries, and is more of a masher. I can feel the "tension" between us through the pedals.

Now, recently, there have been moments of tandem Nirvana. There are stretches where we find ourselves in complete agreement on gearing/cadence. When this happens, I'll look down at the speedo and see that we're traveling 1.5-2 mph faster than I would have thought given my perceived effort. I'm glad to say that these moments are becoming more frequent! We're fast becoming a "team". When we get to a point where we find ourselves in this state the majority of the time, I expect our average speed will be 19-20 mph where alone I would have been going at 17-18.

On a related note, there are lots of apsects to tandeming that I as a captain am having to come to terms with: starting and stopping, getting water, evasive maneuvers, knowing how big a bump to call, etc. These all take away from focusing on the power output and speed. As those become more second nature...I'm no longer a terrified captain!...we will refine the other points that will lead to higher average speed.

Just my $0.02...hope this helps!
Best regards!
Jim

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...22&postcount=3



A 700c KHS Milano like Galen's or a second hand model from one of the other major builders. This is my favorite site: http://www.tandemmag.com/classified

Hey, if my other comments don't apply, there's still the Tandem Club of America as a possible tandem source. The last issue listed a 58/53cm Santana Arriva in Cedar Rapids, IA for $950.00.

Hey Retro. Yes, I appreciate the link. I checked out their classifieds. None were a good fit for the two of us combined. The 58cm is 4 to 5 cm too high compared to what I ride now. I'll keep my eye on their classifieds however.

First thing to find out is if your prospective stoker can stand your riding habits, will put her wellbeing in your hands and look at your back for long periods of time. If the her answere is 'yes' to those questions, then a tandem you should consider!

I would suggest test-riding or borrowing a tandem to make sure she is OK with giving up control. Some people just can't do it.

As far as overall average speed, it should fall between her average and your average. If the terrain is dead-flat, than your average or slightly above your average. When I was down south with Mark and the gang, we did 40 miles at over 20 MPH average, but it very flat with lots of drafting. My stoker would be hard pressed to even finish 40 miles on her own....

As far as your budget, used or a KHS is about your only choice. I am happy with mine, I have IMed with bluesdawg, another BF member and he is happy with his. You have to do some minor upgrading with the KHS - saddles and brake boosters - but, it has up-to-date wheel spacing and STI so, in my mind it is a bargin. Full Cromolly steel frame and a large weighs about 42 lbs.

I have seen used KHS Milanos listed and sold on Ebay for almost the same amount as new, so if you are worried about buying a white elephant, I don't think that is a concern.

I have found my tandem to be a wonder relationship building tool. I would just as soon ride for 2-3 hours with my gurlfriend as do 4 hours busting ass with my fast buddies on singles. I always get a good workout no matter which bike I ride...

Yes - thank goodness! Given I'm her coach as she has just started her cycling adventures, she and I use similar cadence and tactics for flats, hills, train tracks, etc. So, I think we have a decent start as a team.

She is a passenger with me on my motorcycle around 5 to 8k miles every year so I doubt that would be a problem. She's pretty trusting of me and my decisions when it comes to 2 wheels.

Sounds good ... Your situation sounds similar to mine. I look forward to a better workout on the tandem than when she and I ride solo together.

I have been researching the KHS Milano a bit ... and the reviews are great for a budget tandem! I'm shocked as to the low price given the specs and comp's on the bike. WOW! Upgrading saddles and brake boosters won't be much of a problem. We'll probably just buy a 2nd saddle that matches our exact road saddles on our singles given that'll get us up and riding quicker. The resell value is great news ... as I'm sure if we stick with it ... we'll want a more middle-of-the-road tandem upgrade ($3k or so) in the near future.

I look forward to this!!

Yes, my stoker is a complete cycling noob. When we ride together on singles, I coast.... a lot. The tandem is the great equalizer. I have come home from some 40+ mile hilly tandem rides all beat up! When I need a workout, I just head for the steepest hills I know. We may crawl up, but dang, we are going to get to the top! She complains a little.. but I humor her... and our gearing is not supper low (30 x 26) so, there is some grunting going on now and then..but it's all good!

I predict you two will have a ball.....the bike you buy is less important than the shared experience.

What would be considered a GOOD price on the KHS Tandemania Milano? Retail seems to be $1350 or so. I found a couple on eBay for $969 plus shipping (approx. $70 to $90). A few bike shops are selling them online for $1199 to $1299.

What would be a good price if my LBS picked one up to sell me from their local KHS rep? Any ideas? This tandem is looking better all the time ... a very nice budget/starter tandem.

You may also want to take a look at the Raleigh Pursuit because it falls in that $1,000 - $1,200 price range. It has similar components to the KHS Milano in aluminum. I was going to say you can check with your Raleigh dealer about availability, but I believe they're sold out on the size Small, which you may need.

Regarding your questions concerning speed I would have to second much of what Jim said.

When Sandy and I started riding tandem, our speed was below our single speed but I attribute that to the newness of the team concept. Once we found a cadence that we can pedal at together and I became more comfortable in the captain's role our speed overall increased to the point that it is now above what we would normally run. The same "percieved" effort that formerly gave me 16-17 mph on flat ground now returns us 19-20 mph. When either one of us wants to work a little harder the speed goes up. When we're climbing a hill and I tell her that I'm nearly at my limit she often times puts on a burst that gets us over the top.

One note: my stoker has lost all interest in riding her single. She only wants to ride the tandem. In two months we've ridden 820 miles including one century sandwiched into a seven day stretch of 345 total miles. She would never have ridden that much on her single but because of the comfort/speed/companionship that we now enjoy, she's much more assertive about looking for opportunities to ride.

My only regret is that we didn't start doing this tandeming a long time ago.

Regarding your concerns on price --- again I second the suggestions you've already read. Find a ride with a good frame even if the components are lacking since those can always be upgraded later. Ebay is a good source of used quality tandems at an affordable (sometimes) price.

You will enjoy this if you just give it a chance.

Sold. The owner did point me to a Trek T200 in the same area at a similar size that's also for sale. I'm not interested but if someone is, PM me and I'll forward the information.

Also look at what Burley has in your price range; the Rumba model may fit the bill.
However, ordering new tandem this time of year could cause a bit of a wait . . . everybody wants one in spring/summer!
A used KHS, Raleigh, Burley, Santana or even Co-Motion could be a good choice.
Don't worry so much about speed yet, that will come as you develop as a tandem team,
Communication is the key to being a tandem duo. Good look in your search!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

New to it myself,
I have been borrowing a Sanntanna Novelta, but am in the process of getting a tandem. My girlfriend says she gets a much bigger work out when she rides with me. When she rides by herself she wouldn't shift, didn't use clipless, and would coast alot. When Tandemming, we have been doing the roads where I live Arlington VA, since I can't transport the bike, so we have done a bit of short steep hills in the area. I think there might be some team cadence issues, cause sometimes I can feel her pushing and other times I can't. I will say that I get alot more Muscle drain tandemming then riding my single, we seem to always go from really fast to dead slow these steep rollers where we live, I hope STI will help that out.

-Darren

Hey Darren -- thanks for writing! Which tandems are you guys considering buying as your first tandem? I'm trying to figure out how to scrape as much together as I can ... and as soon as I can ... before the season is over. I may have $1k to $1500 at the most.

Sounds like you are having some fun tandemming! I can understand the cadence thing and possible problems. My GF does coast quite a bit more than I would normally also. But, I figure she's new to cycling and she's not big into physical excercise, etc. So, just getting her out and on the bike is a winner!

I'm really hoping she likes tandemming when we finally pick up one. I'm sure we'll have some of the same occur as you mention also. The hills will be a challenge ...and slow going ... but that is pretty common from the past 15 or 16yrs of riding I've done with our club who has a TON of tandems.

I thought it was always amazing to see a tandem team who is really in sync and both average to strong riders with a good base of miles in that season .... they would be flawless in their technique ... and extremely FAST ... even on the hills. :D

There is a vast difference in strength between me and my pilot when out on solos, but that does not matter too much when on the tandem. Tandem riding is about teamwork, and when that team gets together, there are not many solos that will stay with you. Except uphills. They take a lot of effort, and that team has to be working to stay anywhere near the fit solo's

On The GF's heart rate. She may be working to the best of her abilities, but is she a cyclist already? She may be the fittest person around, but if she has not the cycling fitness and muscles, then no matter how hard she works, or how much effort she puts in, the bike will not go anywhere fast. Given time however, she will develop, but don't expect any newcomer to cycling to be that fast.

Now back to the Tandem- That will require Teamwork and it will not appear overnight. Took us about 3 months and 500 miles before we started to work together. I recently did a ride with a non- tandemer and that was hard work, same with my pilot when he took his cycling wife out, and he said he had never worked so hard. Initially there will be lots of problems, the main one being cadence and the difference between the pair of you. Be guided by the stoker, if she wants a slower cadence, or lower gear, then do what she wants. As the GF becomes fitter, she will improve and suddenly you will find the pair of you going up the hills staying with the solos, and a couple of weeks later, some of the solos are behind you.

On the bike side- do look at secondhand. You have bike experience, so can spot the one that is not worth touching, and the one that is such a bargain you will have to buy it.

My wife says the opposite; she doesn’t get as good of a workout on the tandem.

Personally, I go a little slower on the tandem (17-18 mph) than on my single (18-19 mph) even though my wife can do 17 by herself. We did have a 19.3 mph on bike average on the Door County Century last year which would be challenging for me to do on my own without drafting. I was toasted at the end, though, and the course is pretty flat.

I would say hill climbing falls into an average of the two riders since wind resistance is minor. OTOH, down hills and flats can be very fast on a tandem do to the better power to resistance ratio.

Another tandem observation, I’ve learned to just “go with the flow” on a tandem rather than trying to keep up with other fast riders. I can wear myself out very quickly by trying to push the speed by myself, it’s much better to let the speed happen.

-murray

Yeah, I've thought about this also. My motto would be, as it is somewhat frequently riding solo also, just to let the speed happen and not try to hammer to do something different than what is happening naturally. It was good to read in someeone else's words though.

Tandems are NOT for everyone.You seem to be saying to me you want to increase your GF ride to your level so you will not leave her behind.I'm not sure a tandem is right for you---maybe you ought try and keep up with her by using a single speed/fixed gear,or in other words down grade to her level---sam

Thanks for the tip Sam. I already ride in my large chain ring and in my 14 to 16 cog. It's not quite that simple. A tandem, at least to me, helps "equalize" and bring together 2 cyclist's varying degrees of fitness, speed, distance, etc. So, I'm "hoping" this will help us to ride more and enjoy it together more. And, we both get a workout at the same time. ;)

[QUOTE=galen_52657As far as your budget, used or a KHS is about your only choice. I am happy with mine, I have IMed with bluesdawg, another BF member and he is happy with his. ...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, what he said!

I am very happy with my Milano. I did change a few things like the seats (of course) and the brakes ( I replaced the V-brakes with cantilevers). I never have liked STI shifters, so I switched to Shimano barends and regular brake levers.

I got mine from that shop you see on eBay (Two Old Cranks) and I was very pleased with the transaction. The rear wheel was damaged in transportation, and they made it right quickly with no hassles.

If you're still looking at the Milano, I've got one for sale with less than a hundred miles on it, with wheels professionally rebuilt by TandemsEast and brakes upgraded with QVP travel agents.
adm

What size is it? What are you asking? Regular or Large? What year? Can you email me PICs? brian @ bkctechnology.com