The nose of my saddle, set up for a TT isn't 5cm behind the BB. Fortunately, they don't have a jig for tandems at Masters Nationals.

"As far as optimal TT positioning, most of the previous photos posted in this thread show the captain positions are not pushed forward anywhere near the legal limit."
"That is just an example, of course there are "legal limits" to how far forward you can push the saddle and so the "superman" positions are outlawed."
"Yes there is a UCI 50mm behind the BB minimum"
"even if their rules allowed it."

It makes me curious- to what extent ARE there tandem time-trials that even fall under the UCI rules? I assume none of the long-distance stuff (RAAM, various 24-hour, 12-hour races, UMCA records) is, and I'm not aware of any short-distance tandem events locally, period.

^ The TT's we've done, Co-Motion Classic, Masters Nationals, Florida State Championships, and local club TT's were all run under USA Cycling rules.

USA's cycling's rules require UCI cycling only for NRC, and National Championship events. So of the list above only Master's Nationals requires UCI compliance, by rule.

And in practice the official at Masters Nat's said he didn't care whether tandems were compliant, and they had no jig to use for the measurements.

Merlin. How does your stoker like the bars she has now compared to the Cane Creek speed bars she used to have? We actually went the other way. We had some elbow pads etc but now favour a low narrow bar that she holds with straight arms.

^ The pads work better for TT's. It's easier for hold a low aero position for extended time with the pads.

The disadvantage is she really can't stand effectively, so it's a TT only setup. The speed bars were better in that regard.

Good question. We have used Cane Creek Speed bars. For those who have not seen them a below is a picture of them in use by a fast two man team:

Our friends Greg and Liz at 2012 haystack time trail. Their first TT, but with advice from tandem veterans at the start Liz did a good job with the "stoker seatpost hold"

Haystack is a 35-40 minute TT, I think 17 miles, so long enough you can not just grunt out a tough posture.
Here Jeannie and Ella, a strong local TT team with good form are about to overtake Liz and Greg near a corner with the cones restricting the passing move. They pass quick and were only right behind the draft for 10-15 seconds due to the cones. They likely took the 90 corner in the aero bars if they didn't need to brake (fyi we were on a TT configured demo Paketa with brakes out front of the aero position but these teams both had just aero bars. Even so, I moved to the horns for this same corner). Greg has sat up a bit from the aero to the drops to take the upcoming corner. Liz is still in a good position either holding the captn seat post or the stoker stem with narrow forearms. Both stokers' heads are down on the backs of the captains.

Mrs Turbo here, real working girl and power stoker. Coaching your stoker on their aero form is akin to telling your stoker we are not pedaling hard enough. We don’t like it. But I must be doing something right with a nice list of achievements in 2012, like this one, not our longest ride but 8 hours at over 20mph and less than 15 minutes off the saddle; must mean I’m in decent aero form! Beyond the aero form, I know Mr Turbo appreciates most my climbing legs and willingness to ascend more than most any other tandem in the country 2012. With 350k feet we spend far more time climbing than in any other form, and that makes or breaks our performance. Like Mrs Ritterview, when I hear my captain coach me about aero form I think he pictures me riding like this:

Give the stoker some credit, and approach your aero coaching cautiously.

Holy moly. I just ordered that bike outfit for my stoker

On aero form, I have been coaching her to avoid sitting up and drinking in head/crosswinds... it's like there is an open parachute back there when she does. I have no problem with her drinking whenever she needs to, but just a little more technique please... ie: side of mouth instead of the big gulp.

It's supposed to be a team effort. That's the big attraction. Otherwise it must be a big frustration. I don't know, never experienced that. My wife and I have been working and running a business together for almost 40 years. We must have the team thing pretty well down, because we're still friends. Ego vanishes when confronted by the needs of the team. Everyone has to buy in.

Y, we must be a bad team because we verbally communicate with each other. Hopefully we get the telepathy thing working in the next 20 years.

After 23 years, the technical stuff is communicated by the bike for us: shifts don't need a call out we know when it's the right time, soft pedaling as we negotiate a peloton is felt thru the belt, standing we feel the tug on the bars and stand together. But there is nothing wrong with verbal communication which is indispensable when it comes to maintaining mental toughness. On long rides when conditions get tough, or it starts to shower. The chatter can go both ways. If either of us start complaining it builds upon itself. But if we talk about how a tough stretch never lasts more than 20 minutes, about how a certain climb is "wonderfully challenging" or about the great parts of the ride like the competition or the views; that keeps us both stronger. For the double century kind of stuff we have been getting in to, I can not imagine doing that on a single with only the chatter in my own mind to get me thru.

The attempts at using different cowhorns had some improved aero results, but Stoker wasn't really comfortable. Her arms got tired in a low position no matter how we fiddled with the cowhorns.

We now have our stoker compartment fitted with aerobars. We think this will be a semi-permanent arrangement, at least for sport riding. In the words of Stoker, "I adore my new aerobars!" However, we'll take at least Captain's aerobars off for touring.

I want to thank Wayne for posting photos of stokers using aerobars. Our setup is similar to the setups in the photos he posted. I had an old set of Syntace C-2s lying around, so that's what we put on at least for starters. I found it not so simple to use an MTB base bar, as they have an odd taper and our stoker stem and the C-2s are 26mm. Instead, I bought a plain piece of 1" 6061 tubing for the base bar and 3 sets of 25.4mm-26mm shims. The tubing cost $4 plus shipping and the shims $8 ea. IIRC. I mounted the C-2s opposite normal, IOW the right bar is now the left, etc. I pushed the pad all the way out and sawed off the unused pad mounting rail. Stoker now has three good positions: bar tops, the bend of the C-2s, and down on the aerobars. When on the aerobars, her forearms just touch my hips, so this is as narrow as we can get.

We took the new bars out on a 50 mile ride and Stoker was very pleased. We were noticeably faster. She can be down on the aerobars when I'm still on the hoods. When we descend, she can lay her head on my back. However, she's short legged and is riding 170 cranks, so pedaling while on the aerobars wasn't completely comfortable. I added the risers that you see in the photos to bring her up a little. I think this should just do it. The two sets of aerobars add a little weight, but it's way more than offset by increased speed on the flat and descending.



Next time we can press a photographer into service, we'll post some action photos.

Sunshine in the PNW! Photos show the final arrangement. Stoker absolutely loves her aero bars. Gives her a different position, rests her hands, and completely relieves the body and arm strain of being down. If I'm on the hoods on the flat and she goes to the aero bars, that's worth almost a cog in back.

She really disappears behind me.



She's comfortable back there, good breathing, easy riding. We'll probably make this our permanent set up.

Do her aerobars cause any problems when you stand or when you stop the bike?

No obstacle at all for either person standing or starting and stopping. We have the width set so her hands just touch my upper thigh when she's down on them. Narrow as possible. One of the good things about starting with a plain piece of tube is that I could cut it to the exact length needed.

They are a bit of an obstacle if the captain mounts by swinging a leg over his saddle, which is what I do. I'm so short legged and stiff in the hip joints that Stoker has to guide my foot a little. We try to do that as subtly as possible to spare Captain embarrassment. If Captain mounts by swinging a foot over the top tube, they're no obstacle. They're no obstacle for Stoker, being much like a cowhorn.

Picturing your stoker helping your foot over her handlebars brings home the trust between captain and stoker!

I mount by swinging foot in front of captain's bars. Knee is bent and travels over the captain's stem. This allows mounting easily without having to lift the foot high enough to clear the top tube. My bars are as low as the saddle, as narrow as the stoker's bars, and I can see them easily while swinging my leg over. I have mounted swinging over the stoker's bars before and while I was successful, thoughts of getting hung up and flopping over the bike flashed through my head.

Recently I have been working on hip flexibility and recommend it highly. Tight hips were effecting me off the bike as well as on it.

Update - Time trial tandem on ebay with stoker pads mounted to top tube and no bars. Stoker holds captain's sseatpost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaguchi-Ti...item2eca50c580