Hi. New guy here. First post!

I realize there's a ton of "I could of told you that" potential here, but let's just say I'd read all that and wanted to try it anyway...

I'm a long time campy lover, specifically ergo shifting, but have always loved the strength and crispness of the components, and I was looking to set up my dream touring bike, and thought I could set up the following drive train on my new Habanero Ti frameset - and be happy:
Sugino OX901D 30-46 crankset
Chorus 11 sp shifters
Chorus 11-29 cassette (Started out with an IRD 11-30 but the shifting was horrible, improved a lot with the Campy, tho not perfect and I lost a tooth!)
Athena 11 long cage RD
Athena double 11 FD
Chorus 11 chain
White Ind. Mi5 hubs (campy freehub, of course)
(plus Velocity Dyad rims, B-17 Special, Schwalbe Marathon Plus 32s...tubus racks, Ortleib bags)

Yes, I dropped some change here but it was a very pretty thing when done. But there were problems...

* I really overestimated what I could push up a 10% grade with a fully loaded rig. I need lower gears!
* The rear shifting had been troublesome from day one. The range is not that wide. My LBS and I tried a number of things before switching to the Campy cassette, which made a big difference but I've just never liked how it shifted. I've missed the crispness / simplicity of my 9 sp setup on my carbon Fuji.
* The front derailleur never did marry well with the crankset. On day 2 of my Portland-Eureka trip this summer it had finally had enough and snapped clean in two, in the middle of the casting. Ran for a couple days with no FD, stopping to manually lift/drop the chain as needed. Then got a temp FD at a great little bike shop along the route. Shimano ** that really doesn't like my bike either.


I want to make a change and I think I'd like to go to a "more" traditional touring setup but I'd rather not spend a fortune doing it. I've been thinking that I might get away with switching over to Shimano mountain 9 or 10 sp components if I can change out the cassette, RD, FD, chain and shifters. Ouch, this is still gonna hurt... luckily all the Shimano stuff is way cheaper than what I spent on the Campy components. I'd like to go to 11-36 with maybe a smaller small chainring, say a 28. That would give a spread of 21-112 (in gear inches). I'd like to keep the Sugino since its the priciest thing on my bike.

Questions:
I think I can switch my campy freehub to shimano. I've seen youtube videos showing how its done - even specific to the While Ind. hub. But is a Shimano freehub the same for 11, 10 or 9 speeds?
Given that I will stay with drop bars, is there any type of brifter shifting that will work with the Shimano mtn mechs? I've heard about the rollamajig thing but would love to hear of earthly experience with it, good or bad. I had Suntour barcons years ago on my old Peugeot tour setup and I was ok then, but older now and really love the comfort and convenience of shifting from the hoods.

Yeah, it would still be a frankenbike...


Thanks a bunch for any feedback!

For the freehub, 8,9,10 will work on the same freehub, 11 speed cassette is too wide and won't fit on a 10 speed freehub, so I assume it won't fit on 8 or 9, either. You can however put a 10 speed cassette on an 11 speed hub with a spacer. This info is for Shimano and clones.

As for the rear "D," if you want 10 speed with index shifting, you will need to go with a road derailleur. A 105 medium cage on double will shift a 34T, maybe (or maybe not) a 36T. If you want a 36T for sure, 9-speed is the way to go as mountain and road indexing is the same up to 9-speed.

***Amended*** 9 speed mountain RD will work with 10 speed road shifters and cassette but not 10-speed mountain shifters. Please see Nigel's post below.

Campy 11s FDs are very sensitive to being setup parallel to the cogs, and having the cage barely clear the chainring. Your FD problems are adjustment, not the manufacturer I will almost bet money.

RD, not sure as I run Chrorus and the shifting is wunderbar. But again, I suspect adjustment. Why because I've had bike shops not know how to properly break and reassemble Campag chains with mechanics who've never seen the stuff. If it isn't adjustment then I'd look at chainline and der hanger alignment and frame alignment.


With 11speed, Shimano and Campag spacing are very clos...so close some people run shimano hub wheels with campag ders fine. Since you have yet to even get a campag group to run right with a campag hub however, simple-easy will probably run like crap...because the ders are not adjusted properly more likely than not.

I'd share my experience with Campy for touring as it seems you might get some use out of it.

Some 6 years ago I built this bike from scratch, with Campy Veloce 10-sp shifters, Campy FD, Sugino 46-36-26 tripple in front, a Shimano Deore LX RD, augmented by a proper Shiftmate, and a 11-32 9-speed Shimano cassette.
Its purpose at the time was for very hilly (Western NC) long road rides 70%, and forest roads 30%.
It behaved like a champ, and I rode a bunch of pure MTB territory on it, until I decided to "simplify" it by turning it into a double - by offsetting the BB a bit, and using a 46t and a 30t ring on the Sugino spider.
This resulted in subpar front shifting (the Campy FD obviously had difficulties), but it went back to normal once I ditched the Campy FD, and replaced it with a Shimano 105 tripple FD I had in my parts bin (a 5603 I think).
Years passed, I had other bikes to keep me happy for shorter rides, and decided to turn this one into a light tourer. It meant going back to a tripple in front (46-36-24), and a 12-36 Shimano 9-speed cassette.
This is what I tour on now, and am super happy with the setup. Especially after I got rid of the 700c wheels, and built my own with 650b wide rims.

What I am telling you is that you might want to keep the Campy shifters, add a Shiftmate, and combine this with Shimano derailleurs and cassette (10-sp perhaps). The Campy shifters can't be beat and I like them much better than any bar-end shifters.

28T front?
Why make it hard?
Why not get a crankset that offers 22 or 24T?
Yeah I agree on your 11-36

21-112 GI would be way too high a gearing for me and only worsen my knees from over gearing in my misspent youth.
These days I roll with closer to 17-90 although my bike is likely heavier than yours.
Be nice to your knees is my advice and spin.

yes, you can! you can set up your bike with those components and be happy!
you just can't be happy with that bike on a loaded tour.

you seem to (have) be(en) so focused on the bright, shiny cool stuff....ooooh, choruussssss.....
that you've failed to consider the intended use.

you got a 30:29 gear setup, and you're surprised you can't make it up the hills loaded?
ah, but it's choooorruuuuussss.....you'll look good pushing.

forget the campy stuff for now. decide what you actually intend to use the bike for, and
sketch out the perfect component set that you know works. then you can start tinkering,
substituting shiny stuff that will function well enough.

1st, I own a Habanero cyclecross/touring frame.
2nd, I own that exact same 46-30 crank
I use the Shimano 105 FD for cycle cross with the smaller radius cage and it shifts beautifully with Ultegra 10 speed shifter up front.
I run a XT 11-34 in the rear using a Deore LX or an XT RD and shifts quite well. I too had issues with an IRD 10 speed cassette. I have no doubt that I could make it work with a 11-36 cassette but find that a 30x34 can get me up a lot of stuff. I have a 10 speed 105 RD that states it can handle a 32t and I found I could get a 34t to work but not sure if I could push a 36?
Hope maybe some of this helps.

Get a Rohloff!

Mike

Just a bit of information on Shimano RDs.

9 speed mountain RD (for example M592) will work with 10 speed ROAD shifters, but NOT 10 speed MTB shifters.

9 speed any RD will work with 9 and less speed shifters (except certain Durace models).

Just to clarify... to do this you need to be shifting a 10-speed cassette.

So then the next natural question (that maybe only I care to know) is: Does the 9-speed mountain RD work with 11-speed cassette and shifters also?

Just curious... 9-speeds are plenty for me.

To the best of my knowledge - No.

robow - great info, thanks!

+1. Reminds me of a relatively recent thread someone started about his Jamis Aurora. He went for the Elite model and then realized that it was not really geared properly for full loads. To make matters worse, the poster was a clyde who made it sound like he wasn't a good climber. He never specified why he went with the Elite, but my guess is that the disc brakes played a role in the decision, if not a bug one.

Nigel - thanks. So that if I changed my campy 11 freehub to a shimano 10 freehub I could then use a 10sp 11-36 cluster with a 10sp mountain RD - yes? Or same question if moving to "all 9" re using a Shimano 9 freehub? Not really wanting to mix up 9 and 10 shifting components... And I assume there's no hope of using my Chorus 11 shifters with any of the above. Are freehubs specifically sized to whether they support 9, 10 or 11 speeds? It would seem likely but I've no experience with this.

Just saw that I missed seeing this and a couple other posts. Thanks!

NB: for actual touring leave the exotic stuff at home , midline Shimano stuff will have spare parts available in small town bike shops.

high end stuff like hubs The LBS here has cut them out of damaged wheels and sent home .

since It is a Busy summer touring season (many hundreds do the North Pacific Coast in those months)

That is not the time to spend a week, getting custom parts in , and hand build a new wheel .

That made me smile. That's exactly what I'm trying to do!

Thanks, that gives me some hope for my campy shifters. I do like them and yeah, not cheap. So in using your 10sp shifter with the 9sp Shimano RD / cassette, is there an extra click that just does nothing? I assume that has to be at the small end of the cassette or you might risk throwing the chain into spokes at the large end? Wondering if I could do the same with my 11 sp shifters on a 9 or 10 sp Shimano setup. It seems 9sp is really where I should focus... I may just have to sell off the shifters too. Or move them to my Fuji, though I works so well as is, why would I go and change it...

NO !!

9 speed Mountain RD (suggest M592) 10 speed Road shifters with a 10 speed cassette up to 36T

OR

10 speed Mountain RD with 10 speed Mountain shifters.

Shimano 8/9/10 speed freehubs; usually requires a spacer shim for 10 speed (which are narrower than 8 or 9); can also add a spacer to use 7 speed.

Bottom line: I recommend the M592 RD, widely available, rated for 36T, very good reviews, inexpensive.

10s campy shifter + 9s shim der does leave a nonfunctional click that is completely inconsequential. Derailleur movement is limited by stop screws to prevent spoke damage.

11s campy shifter with 10s shim der + cass will probably work. I do about the same thing with 10s campy veloce shifter + 9s shim xt RD + 9s shim 11-32 cass. I started out using a Jtek adapter, then later discovered the adapter was unnecessary if I simply rotated the cable fixing bolt 90 degrees CCW. The Jtek adapter works well, but due to the small cable bending radius it will greatly shorten gear cable life.

https://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-libra...gears/shimergo

You can fit smaller granny ring to your crank (24t minimum IIRC), but there are hardly any FDs that can accommodate that wide a gap (46->28) - most Shim FDs can handle only 12t jump and additionally have min and max ring size specs. You can bend the FD cage and extend the range, but don't bother unless you have the temperament for frustrating experimentation. It is difficult to get Shim road shifters to work with Shim mtb FDs and mtb cranks, and adding a Campy shifter doesn't make it easier.

I think you need to first determine the gear range suitable for your needs, then go from there. I know I need 18-20 gear inches on the bottom and really no more than 90 gear inches on the top for loaded riding. I can get by with a low of 26 gi and 104 at the top for unloaded riding.

As someone else already posted, the extra click (which does not do anything) is there upon installation, but disappears once you adjust the High and Low RD screws - the cable pull left available simply limits your number of available clicks to the number of cogs on the cassette.
Do your homework, decide on the gear-inches you want (18-101 is what I have), take a look at the Shiftmate compatibility page
and chose whichever one fits you best.
The #4 matches 11-speed Campy shifters to a 10-speed Shimano cassette, the M592 RD as already suggested would work great. A 9-speed cassette however is cheaper, as is the 9-speed chain.

And a note on durability and reliability: the bike I described has some 15+ thousand miles with the latest setup, shifts beautifully and gives me no trouble whatsoever; I change the derailleur cables every year.

The shop that built my latest tandem frame likes to set up tandems with Campy 10-speed shifters and Shimano 9-speed cassettes. As long as a Shimano rear derailleur is used, this works fine without a shiftmate. Since the cable pull on the Campy 11-speed is the same as on the 10-speed (I think), you could simply change the free hub, cassette (to Shimano 9-speed) and rear derailleur to Shimano and you'd be back in business. Or, you could go 10-speed and do the shiftmate thing.

That said, I think I'd stay with the Campy 11-speed and learn to adjust the derailleurs. If your low gear isn't low enough for you, do what you need to do to change cassettes or change chain rings. Even as an old man, I'm amazed that people are ridiculing you for starting off with a low gear that was just about a 1:1 ratio. Forty years ago when I first got a low gear so low I thought I could climb vertical walls with it. That really should be low enough for most trips, but if you need something lower, by all means go ahead and do it. IMO, you started at a reasonable low gear.

IK_biker - thanks ... seeing the JTek compatibility chart is helpful.

B.Carfree - I'd really prefer to stay with the crankset and shifters I have so your recommendations are great. However staying all Campagnolo doesn't seem to be an option and still get to the gear range I want - biggest Camp. cog is 29. Not sure where else to go with that. The Sugino crank will take small rings down to 24, I think, but even dropping the big ring to 40, to keep the spread reasonable, gets me a smallest gear of 24.7 GI, and a top end of only 89.2. Not where I want to be.

So Shimano conversion is where I'm heading. Just ordered the new freehub from White - $150! Ouch. So then, I'm going with 10 sp with a 11-36 Shimano cassette. Given the strong recommendations on the 9 speed mtn RD (i.e. the M592) that seems like a good choice. Are there other recommendations re best (i.e. cost effective, durable) cassette and chain? Also the FD I currently have is not working great. Maybe after the other changes it will do better with further adjustment. It's a Sora model, put on after the original Athena model broke in 2, and was what the shop in Newport OR (Bike Newport, great guys!) had on hand. It has a fairly small radius - tho it doesn't look like a triple - but no idea of its teeth capacity.

Hello again. Its a couple days later and waiting arrival of new freehub. Been looking around at info on RDs and cassettes. The M591 looks to be quite similar to the M592 but tho I've read reviews of good results using the 591 with 36t, it appears to be only rated for 34t. Any reason to think it wouldn't work ok on a 10sp 11-36? Also, I'm a bit confused how to differentiate between the different cassette options I'm seeing (XT, XTR, HG...) - is there a choice that is really best for touring / dependability? Should I consider SRAM? Really not too concerned with weight.

I know that keeping my Campag shifters is problematic (and they really don't work as well as my old 9 speed model) I'm looking to give that one more try (i.e. via shiftmate or alt cable route). If I can't make it work I'll likely go to bar-end shifters as perhaps I should have in the first place.

All old Shimano RDs were "rated" for up to 32 (or 34) teeth cog. No issue with them handling a 36t, however the smart move is to flip the B-screw (see Sheldon Brown's how-to). Do this even before you install the RD, and live happily ever after. Or install a bit longer B-screw if you could find one.

In my previous posts where I mention a Shimano cassette, I meant Shimano-compatible. I have long ago developed strong preference for Sram MTB cassettes, and use them more than native Shimanos. Same goes for chains - exclusively Sram here.
You could use either - whichever is available in your preferred gearing within budget.