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planning for flat tires // self-adhesive vs conventional patches. And how many?

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planning for flat tires // self-adhesive vs conventional patches. And how many?

Old 11-25-15, 03:56 AM
  #26  
Juha
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My last on-the-road tube patch was nearly a decade ago when I helped out a fellow rider. Local guy, he had just gone out for a nice Saturday leisure ride and flatted. He didn't have a spare tube, patch kit, tools or even pump with him.I happened on the spot in all my touring glory, kitchen sink and whatnot.

If it happens to me, I just change the tube and patch later in a more convenient place. I carry a couple of spare tubes and a traditional patch kit.

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Old 11-25-15, 04:32 AM
  #27  
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Never had a PSA patch fail. All I use. I carry both because there can be situations where one needs to cut an odd sized patch. I do a lot of gluing of all kinds of material and glues. If people are having trouble with PSA patches maybe they should look in the mirror. But I guess if they are having trouble, it still comes down to the same thing, not the best choice.
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Old 11-25-15, 06:18 AM
  #28  
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I've had both good and bad luck with self-adhesive patches. Pick your poison. I do carry a spare tire, I've had brand new tires split straight across the tread by things on the road. One extra tube is a prerequisite for riding a bike, two or three for extended tours.

Marc
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Old 11-25-15, 07:48 AM
  #29  
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There seem to be a number of people who find self-adhesive patches to be a temporary solution. I haven't experienced this. I have had the patches fail to take, but if they work, they work. I leave them on until there's another reason to replace the tube. If I considered them temporary, I wouldn't consider them to be worthwhile at all.
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Old 11-25-15, 08:16 AM
  #30  
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I use exclusively the patches using the vulcanizing fluid. If used properly they provide a permanent repair. The trick is to scuff the tire, put enough fluid to cover the tire 1/2 inch beyond the size of the patch and let it dry thoroughly. When you apply the patch take a hard object like a tire lever and work it all around the patch and perimeter. It takes a little longer but like I said it is permanent. A friend brought some glueless patches on a tour once and I found them worthless.
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Old 11-25-15, 08:21 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by imi View Post
I wonder how credit-card tourers make tire-boots?
As you mentioned elsewhere, money can work. I used bills to boot tires on road rides. And a credit card tourist can carry a boot.
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Old 11-25-15, 08:34 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gerryl View Post
I carry regular old fashion patches - I know they work. The only advantage I see with self-adhesive patches is that it saves you the trouble of fiddling around with glue - big deal.

Now since patches and glue weight next to nothing I don't see what the issue is, when it comes to decide how much, bring a hundred, bring two hundred you won't notice the difference.
+1
What's the point of temporarily patching a tube to save a few seconds waiting for the vulcanizing fluid to flash? It will eat up a lot more time when you have to stop and repair the second time.

Yeah, just bring the whole patch kit. Even the large ones are infinitesimal in weight and bulk compared to all the stuff people bring and don't need.
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Old 11-25-15, 09:16 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Originally Posted by imi View Post
I wonder how credit-card tourers make tire-boots?
As you mentioned elsewhere, money can work. I used bills to boot tires on road rides. And a credit card tourist can carry a boot.
Sorry indyfabz, my feeble attempt at humour... I was envisioning a CC tourer cutting their card into a tire boot...
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Old 11-25-15, 09:18 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by imi View Post
Sorry indyfabz, my feeble attempt at humour... I was envisioning a CC tourer cutting their card into a tire boot...
Get a cash advance from an ATM and make the boot from that!
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Old 11-25-15, 09:33 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
Get a cash advance from an ATM
... take the cash to the LBS round the corner and buy a tire-boot!
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Old 11-25-15, 09:36 AM
  #36  
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Just reiterating what most have said here, that the glueless patches are a short-term fix.

I carry several glueless patches, a vulcanizing kit with six patches and an extra inner tube. If I have a flat, I replace the tube and then repair the leak at camp with the vulcanizing glue and patches. The glueless patches are only there in the event that I have a second flat before getting to camp. I've only had that happen once. The glueless patches, while short-term will still stay in place and do a fine job for a couple of years before they start coming loose. I can leave them on until the tube needs another patch and then I'll switch them out for a "proper" vulcanized patch.

This is the same set up I use for commuting except that I don't carry the vulcanizing glue set up on my bike. I keep glue and patches in my desk drawer at work.
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Old 11-25-15, 09:36 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by imi View Post
Sorry indyfabz, my feeble attempt at humour... I was envisioning a CC tourer cutting their card into a tire boot...
Heh. After I commented it hit me that you might have meant that. I am clearly slow this morning.
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Old 11-25-15, 09:42 AM
  #38  
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planning for flat tires // self-adhesive vs conventional patches. And how many?

No sweat! Good Morning to ya!
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Old 11-25-15, 10:05 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by imi View Post
... take the cash to the LBS round the corner and buy a tire-boot!
Just get them to break a $20 and use a $1 bill. NB. This will not work in Canada unless you can make a boot out of a large coin.
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Old 11-25-15, 11:04 AM
  #40  
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Gauvins, when are you leaving for this trip, and where are you going? You've asked a number of trio related questions but I don't recall you mentioning details of the trip. Just curious.

Back to patches, I tend to only get about a flat per year average, sometimes 2, with most of my riding around Montreal.

I also strongly recommend glue patches, when done properly they can last for years. When I get a flat, its super important to determine and find the object that caused the flat, and get it out of your tire, glass, wire etc. This is a priority of you will be screwing around with another flat soon which is exceedingly frustrating.
Once I am sure that the debris is not in tire, just be attentive to outer and inner part of tire, very attentive, then I put in my spare tube and patch the one with the hole in it at the end of the day. If it's nice out, then I may patch it right there, ifthisi clear where the hole is, just so it's done. Later is OK too using water to find exactly where the bubbles come out.
One tip is to match the tire brand name logo on side of the tire with the valve hole. As we tend to take the tube out of the tire by only loosening one side of the tire, leaving tire on the rim, you can cross reference the spot where you find the piece of glass in the tire to the position of the tube, easier to find the hole if you don't have water. Even if I will patch the hole later, with a pen I often circle the hole in the tube, faster to find it later.

Your question shows you are not used to repairing bike flats, so I suggest you do it beforehand. Practice a bunch of times.

Forget the stuffing grass in gcn video trick, with a loaded bike you'll ruin the tire riding on it like that.

Practice removing and putting tire back on, better to be frustrated now in your home than at the side of the road.
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Old 11-25-15, 11:26 AM
  #41  
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Oops forgot to mention that yes, it's important to have at least two unopened glue tubes, yes they do tend to dry out and you don't want to be caught out. One trick when using them is to squeeze all air out before putting lid back on, common sense but helps.
They weigh nothing so having 2 or 3, and a number of patches weighs so little, it's a no brainer.
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Old 11-25-15, 11:41 AM
  #42  
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I used self-adhesive patches for years to include multiple patches on a single tube ridden for many months/years with no issues. All on 23-25 mm tires.
Then I started using fatter tires and self-adhesive patches failed every time.
I speculate (postulate?) that skinny tire tubes don’t have to stretch as far to fill the volume of the tire which reduces the force pulling away from the adhesive. Further, higher pressure on the tube-patch-tire sandwich may aid in holding the patch in place.
Now I just use conventional patches. I restock my kit as I use patches and glue. I usually have one open and one un-opened tube of glue. If/when the opened tube dries out I use the second, chuck the old one, and replace it with an un-opened tube. I’ve never had – or heard of – an unopened tube drying out.
I don’t find glue kits to be less convenient than self-adhesive patches. Of the total time it takes me to repair a flat the extra two minutes for glue (yes, I do wait for it to dry) does not matter to me. In fact, I usually spend that time packing and stowing the patch kit anyway so it’s really just an extra 15 seconds to spread the glue.
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Old 11-25-15, 04:09 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by TheReal Houdini View Post
I used self-adhesive patches for years to include multiple patches on a single tube ridden for many months/years with no issues. All on 23-25 mm tires.
Then I started using fatter tires and self-adhesive patches failed every time.
I speculate (postulate?) that skinny tire tubes don’t have to stretch as far to fill the volume of the tire which reduces the force pulling away from the adhesive. Further, higher pressure on the tube-patch-tire sandwich may aid in holding the patch in place.
Now I just use conventional patches. I restock my kit as I use patches and glue. I usually have one open and one un-opened tube of glue. If/when the opened tube dries out I use the second, chuck the old one, and replace it with an un-opened tube. I’ve never had – or heard of – an unopened tube drying out.
I don’t find glue kits to be less convenient than self-adhesive patches. Of the total time it takes me to repair a flat the extra two minutes for glue (yes, I do wait for it to dry) does not matter to me. In fact, I usually spend that time packing and stowing the patch kit anyway so it’s really just an extra 15 seconds to spread the glue.
I suspect your theory is probably the reason, I've only ever used glue ones, and as you say, the time diff is so minimal its not an issue, especially when done properly, the patch bonds with the rubber in a way that is pretty much permanent.

ya, I guess an unopened one won't dry, but it seems to me that I once had a tube that appeared full, but ended up only having air (was probably a mistake in the factory)--but as you say, always having an unopened one is the way to go, to be sure.

as for waiting for the glue to dry, my understanding is that this is absolutely necessary for the proper bonding to happen. I also always make sure Ive put a bit more than the size of the patch, to make sure the edges of the patch are well and truly glued down properly .
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Old 11-25-15, 04:22 PM
  #44  
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planning for flat tires // self-adhesive vs conventional patches. And how many?

When I put a patch on I press the patch and tube together really hard between the palms of my hands for a minute or so. You can feel the extra heat of the vulcinisation process.
I THINK the pressure and my hands' heat help the chemical reaction, but have nothing to back this up.

Can anyone enlighten me, or "myth bust" this? Cycco?
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Old 11-25-15, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by imi View Post
When I put a patch on I press the patch and tube together really hard between the palms of my hands for a minute or so. You can feel the extra heat of the vulcinisation process.
I THINK the pressure and my hands' heat help the chemical reaction, but have nothing to back this up.

Can anyone enlighten me, or "myth bust" this? Cycco?
have no idea, but I have always done the same thing. I initially place the patch on in a manner not to trap any air bubble in it, then I push outwards from middle with my finger nail and then hold it just like you do for a min or two.

If it aint broke, dont fix it. This, plus always making sure rubber is clean, and lightly sanded, good even amount of glue , more than the patch size, and waiting for it to dry before applying....and voila, never had patches come loose.
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Old 11-25-15, 05:13 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Juha View Post
My last on-the-road tube patch was nearly a decade ago when I helped out a fellow rider. Local guy, he had just gone out for a nice Saturday leisure ride and flatted. He didn't have a spare tube, patch kit, tools or even pump with him.I happened on the spot in all my touring glory, kitchen sink and whatnot.

If it happens to me, I just change the tube and patch later in a more convenient place. I carry a couple of spare tubes and a traditional patch kit.

--J
Even easier, I carry a spare tire too, so I don't have to even look for the object in the tire. 1 spare tire, 1 patch kit (throw away the MTB patches, add more road patches), 2 spare tubes.
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Old 11-25-15, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
when are you leaving for this trip, and where are you going?
At the moment, the plan is for a shakedown trip (my wife and I) in Iceland next June. Then, our tribe (i.e. us + 5 & 10 yo daughters) plans to ride Eurovelo 6 (July & August), although if we are doing well, ending in Istanbul rather than on the Black Sea ("self supported"). The next trip (we'll skip a Summer because the little one will not be so little anymore, but not tall enough to pedal long distances) should be transAmerica. After these two classics in developed countries, depending on the group dynamics, something more challenging -- either a long trek along the Andes, or some of the stans, or (but this is me speaking here) Kathmandu to Lhasa (but I think that there would be visa issues). You get the drift, I guess.

The first two (European) projects are well under way as far as planning goes. The transAmerica will probably be a mixture of crossing the continent by bike and renting cars for side trips to interesting places. I'd bet that this is no pipe dream. The treks are more iffy. Let's say 50% likelihood. The girls are terrific. Would be great if we could pull this off.
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Old 11-25-15, 05:37 PM
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Have had no luck with glueless so I only carry glue patches and the only time I really have any trouble with them is when their is more than one hole and I don't catch the second hole. I do cut the glueable patches, the wider rectangular shape ones in two most of the time and use less of them as result. Typically I have small punctures not big gashes so I don't need the big patches like that. Even after cutting them in half they are still big enough to cover the hole.

It probably depends on your luck as to how many patches to carry. In the past one patch kit was plenty but this year...not a chance. On plenty of days this year I was getting two flats in the same day. At time this was even on a brand new tire. I've never had such crappy luck with flat tires as this year. Heck in the past week I've had two flat tires, just one this afternoon, again on a a new tire with only 150 miles or so on it.

I can't wait for the first decent wet heavy snow to come. Hopefully 3-4 inches of it. I won't complain any at all. Let the snow fall...let the snowplow plow and get rid of the darn crap on the road. Then it will be time to ride again. So much crap is on the road right now. I've never seen it this bad before.
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Old 11-25-15, 05:54 PM
  #49  
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Does anyone know who might sell just the small tubes of vulcanizing glue in packs? I've got enough patches for three lifetimes. I know the cost for the whole kit is no big deal but it would be nice to not end up with so much waste.
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Old 11-25-15, 06:34 PM
  #50  
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planning for flat tires // self-adhesive vs conventional patches. And how many?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0016OW76E/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=1448497996&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=rema+tip+top&dpPl=1&dpID=41I08e5ZCuL&ref=plSrch

5g is bigger than the glue in the kits, neh?
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