Trek 920
02-15-16 | 12:52 PM
#176
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,706
Likes: 10,240
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
For those that are more seasoned touring folks than me, I have a sincere question.... Would a pull behind trailer, with maybe just front panniers negate any possible impact of 28 spoke wheels? I am heavier than a lot of folks on here probably..215. What about a trunk bag on rear rack, front panniers and then a bob trailer or something like that? Would that alleviate any possible strength issues on the rear wheel. Thanks in advance.-John I was going to buy front and rear Arkel Panniers, but thought I could probably get a trailer instead.
For what its worth, bob trailers handle something like 75lb of gear...you could probably not even need front bags if you used a bob.
02-15-16 | 12:58 PM
#177
Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Likes: 1
A trailer will take the weight off the wheels, absolutely. I have no idea if itll make these specific wheels usable for what you want at your size. I am heavier than you, so I understand being wary of equipment that wont hold up to use.
For what its worth, bob trailers handle something like 75lb of gear...you could probably not even need front bags if you used a bob.
For what its worth, bob trailers handle something like 75lb of gear...you could probably not even need front bags if you used a bob.
02-15-16 | 01:24 PM
#178
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,706
Likes: 10,240
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Thanks for the replies. I wasn't worried at all till I started reading these threads, now I am not so sure...lol At this point, I can't have 36 spoke wheels built and still be able to get all the touring stuff by May. I am going with a buddy and we will be on the GAP/C&O, so I won't be on any remote roads and trails.
The biggest downside to machine built wheels(except for very expensive ones) is that spoke tension is not consistent. Ive read about a machine at some wheel factory in Europe which can tension wheels as well as anyone, but most wheels for this type of bike and less dont have the same level of quality and precision.
You with a bob is effectively like just you on the bike riding the path. I am far from an expert which is why I stick to higher spokes if at all possible, so im better safe than sorry. But if time doesnt make a swap possible, then bring this if a spoke actually breaks and have fun. Amazon.com : FiberFix Emergency Spoke Replacement Kit : Bike Spokes And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors
02-15-16 | 01:30 PM
#179
Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Likes: 1
maybe have the shop you buy the bike from tension and true the wheels when you buy the bike? Or if you have it, take the wheels into a shop and have them properly tension the wheels?
The biggest downside to machine built wheels(except for very expensive ones) is that spoke tension is not consistent. Ive read about a machine at some wheel factory in Europe which can tension wheels as well as anyone, but most wheels for this type of bike and less dont have the same level of quality and precision.
You with a bob is effectively like just you on the bike riding the path. I am far from an expert which is why I stick to higher spokes if at all possible, so im better safe than sorry. But if time doesnt make a swap possible, then bring this if a spoke actually breaks and have fun. Amazon.com : FiberFix Emergency Spoke Replacement Kit : Bike Spokes And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors
The biggest downside to machine built wheels(except for very expensive ones) is that spoke tension is not consistent. Ive read about a machine at some wheel factory in Europe which can tension wheels as well as anyone, but most wheels for this type of bike and less dont have the same level of quality and precision.
You with a bob is effectively like just you on the bike riding the path. I am far from an expert which is why I stick to higher spokes if at all possible, so im better safe than sorry. But if time doesnt make a swap possible, then bring this if a spoke actually breaks and have fun. Amazon.com : FiberFix Emergency Spoke Replacement Kit : Bike Spokes And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors
02-15-16 | 01:41 PM
#180
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,706
Likes: 10,240
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Some posters here have used the fiberfix and said it worked great.
02-15-16 | 02:30 PM
#182
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 425
Likes: 2
From: Skien Norway
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus Comp Carbon Disc '14
Sarcasm notwithstanding, you know what the term describes and you started a thread on the term a couple months ago and it was explained very well. https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...avel-bike.html
This also is around when you began deriding the activity by mockingly calling it 'grrrrravel grrrrrrinding' for some reason.
Neither your hybrid nor your mtb are inadequate. Nobody has claimed they are(except you, sarcastically) and in fact I specifically mentioned youve been doing the very thing that is currently a niche, so clearly that upright hybrid of yours works quite well.
You claim that such a style of riding demands a new bike, but that isnt accurate and you are smart enough to know it isnt accurate, so why even make the claim? While it doesnt demand a new bike, a new bike may be beneficial. If someone has a couple road bikes which max out at 25c tires and have road double gearing, that is probably not conducive to ride many of the types of gravel around the country as the tires would jump and deflect all over the place. Plus, the more aggressive frame geometry may not be comfortable for 3 hours of bumpier riding. So in this instance, a different bike would be a good decision, assuming they want to dedicate the time to make the purchase worthwhile.
I could ride my road bike on some rolling single track and do most of it, but that isnt close to ideal. Instead, a mtb with lower gearing, a higher bb, and some fatter tires will make the experience more enjoyable.
Apply that to riding on gravel.
You do it with a hybrid. I do it with near 25yo hybrid converted with some drops. Others do it with CX bikes. Others do it with the currently popular all around drop bar bike frames. Riding on gravel can obviously be done with many different types of bikes. But that doesnt mean there shouldnt be a genre of bike which is marketed for gravel.
I dont expect any of what I just typed to change your mind because it appears you are proud that you do things differently from the lemmings who follow the latest trends in cycling mags. I just dont understand the vitriolic mockery directed towards those who dont conform to your view of how cycling should be.
This also is around when you began deriding the activity by mockingly calling it 'grrrrravel grrrrrrinding' for some reason.
Neither your hybrid nor your mtb are inadequate. Nobody has claimed they are(except you, sarcastically) and in fact I specifically mentioned youve been doing the very thing that is currently a niche, so clearly that upright hybrid of yours works quite well.
You claim that such a style of riding demands a new bike, but that isnt accurate and you are smart enough to know it isnt accurate, so why even make the claim? While it doesnt demand a new bike, a new bike may be beneficial. If someone has a couple road bikes which max out at 25c tires and have road double gearing, that is probably not conducive to ride many of the types of gravel around the country as the tires would jump and deflect all over the place. Plus, the more aggressive frame geometry may not be comfortable for 3 hours of bumpier riding. So in this instance, a different bike would be a good decision, assuming they want to dedicate the time to make the purchase worthwhile.
I could ride my road bike on some rolling single track and do most of it, but that isnt close to ideal. Instead, a mtb with lower gearing, a higher bb, and some fatter tires will make the experience more enjoyable.
Apply that to riding on gravel.
You do it with a hybrid. I do it with near 25yo hybrid converted with some drops. Others do it with CX bikes. Others do it with the currently popular all around drop bar bike frames. Riding on gravel can obviously be done with many different types of bikes. But that doesnt mean there shouldnt be a genre of bike which is marketed for gravel.
I dont expect any of what I just typed to change your mind because it appears you are proud that you do things differently from the lemmings who follow the latest trends in cycling mags. I just dont understand the vitriolic mockery directed towards those who dont conform to your view of how cycling should be.
Though CX bikes did that job? Gravel bikes maybe have more endurance frame form with bigger tires, is that al that is different?
02-15-16 | 02:46 PM
#183
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,706
Likes: 10,240
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
I think we are in agreement- My point has been that its completely acceptable for a gravel market to exist.
Yes, CX bikes are similar to gravel bikes and the line between CX and gravel is quite blurry.
I dont ride CX and I dont own a bike that was marketed as a gravel bike, so take this for what its worth- CX are often times road bike geometry with a higher bb compared to gravel bikes which typically have slacker geometry and a lower bb when compared to CX.
Pretty slight differences since not all bikes fall neatly into one or the other category.
I am all for multiple segments of cycling as it furthers innovation and allows for more options and customization.
Labels are everywhere in life. Some people accept them. Some people dismiss them. Some people rage and fight against them. Its the same in cycling. Some accept the different categories. Some ignore the categories and choose what they want for what they want to do. Some fight against the categories despite it ultimately being a futile and meaningless fight.
Yes, CX bikes are similar to gravel bikes and the line between CX and gravel is quite blurry.
I dont ride CX and I dont own a bike that was marketed as a gravel bike, so take this for what its worth- CX are often times road bike geometry with a higher bb compared to gravel bikes which typically have slacker geometry and a lower bb when compared to CX.
Pretty slight differences since not all bikes fall neatly into one or the other category.
I am all for multiple segments of cycling as it furthers innovation and allows for more options and customization.
Labels are everywhere in life. Some people accept them. Some people dismiss them. Some people rage and fight against them. Its the same in cycling. Some accept the different categories. Some ignore the categories and choose what they want for what they want to do. Some fight against the categories despite it ultimately being a futile and meaningless fight.
02-15-16 | 06:45 PM
#184
Just Plain Slow
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,026
Likes: 5
From: Santa Clarita, CA
Bikes: Lynskey R230
MOD NOTE: After reading through the last few pages of this thread, it's clear that some are pretty frustrated. Let me take this opportunity to remind everyone of the rules we all agreed to abide by when signing up to participate here. DO NOT MAKE IT PERSONAL. Feel free to discuss issues, however, do not take it to the point that you're discussing the member. That is harassment and will not be tolerated. If you don't have the ability to control yourself and abide by the rules, please use the ignore feature of the forum.
02-15-16 | 07:15 PM
#185
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,631
Likes: 1,061
From: Oregon
Most long distance riders are prepared to fix a broken chain with a chain breaker and a "quick link".
On the other hand, poor decisions make for great stories
.
02-15-16 | 08:51 PM
#186
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,814
Likes: 434
From: Thailand..........currently Nakhon Ricefield, moving to the beach soon.
Bikes: inferior steel....alas....noodly aluminium assploded
guess i'm just annoyed at the marketing......taking your basic
riding on dirt/gravel roads and packaging it as something
breathtakingly new....and then convincing the customer to
pay twice as much for a bike with half the capability of
what's already on the market and perfectly suited to the
activity.
but i'll shut up for now...
johnbort: trailer won't take all the weight off, you've still got
some weight on the axle where the bob is attached. probably
not a simple 50/50 distribution, depends on how you load the
trailer.
you've already got 215 over the rear. better to move some
weight up front and skip the rack trunk. handling will then
be different. you may like it, or not.
riding on dirt/gravel roads and packaging it as something
breathtakingly new....and then convincing the customer to
pay twice as much for a bike with half the capability of
what's already on the market and perfectly suited to the
activity.
but i'll shut up for now...
johnbort: trailer won't take all the weight off, you've still got
some weight on the axle where the bob is attached. probably
not a simple 50/50 distribution, depends on how you load the
trailer.
you've already got 215 over the rear. better to move some
weight up front and skip the rack trunk. handling will then
be different. you may like it, or not.
02-16-16 | 08:22 AM
#188
Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Likes: 1
johnbort: trailer won't take all the weight off, you've still got
some weight on the axle where the bob is attached. probably
not a simple 50/50 distribution, depends on how you load the
trailer.
you've already got 215 over the rear. better to move some
weight up front and skip the rack trunk. handling will then
be different. you may like it, or not.
One more thought...the rear panniers are 40l and the front 28...if I can fit the rear panniers on the front and just have the 28's lightly loaded on the rear rack, that would lessen stress on the rear. That is assuming I can still steer the bike..heh
03-10-16 | 10:23 AM
#190
canis lupus familiaris
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,254
Likes: 1
From: North Carolina
Bikes: En plus one
Saddle choice is a very personal thing because everybody butt is different. If it feel good to you, then it is a good saddle for you. Just be sure to test it out for a longer ride.
03-10-16 | 10:41 AM
#191
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,706
Likes: 10,240
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
The 1 mention I do see reads like a general acceptance that the saddle will need to be swapped out because thats what is often done with stock saddles.- And if you consider that the wheels are way too lightweight in terms of spokes for decent touring and you'll still need to swap the saddle it's a lot more expensive than just 2k.
I would be interested to read all the negative comments that have been made about this specific saddle. Please post them.
After you post all these comments, ignore them. Who cares what everyone thinks about something which is so individual like a saddle? What is good for one person may be terrible for many others when it comes to a saddle. Its why an inexpensive saddle is often times used as stick equipment...why would a company attach an expensive saddle when they can attach a cheaper one and keep the price lower since the saddle may be switched?
If the current saddle fits you, then great. If it is uncomfortable after 10 or 20 or 30mi then try some other saddles which would possibly fix what hurts and where. Bike shops often have test saddles you can check out before buying.
03-10-16 | 10:57 AM
#192
Seņor Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,070
Likes: 306
03-10-16 | 11:06 AM
#193
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,706
Likes: 10,240
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
I dont know, that is from the quote that I found which referenced the saddle needing to be replaced. I didnt type that. I should have used "" around the red bold italicized wording to show that was the quote.
03-10-16 | 11:09 AM
#194
Seņor Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,070
Likes: 306
Oh. Thanks for the clarification. I kinda thought that might be the case. Who was the poster who said that, if you can recall?
03-10-16 | 12:18 PM
#195
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 525
From: Turku, Finland, Europe
Bikes: 2011 Specialized crux comp, 2013 Specialized Rockhopper Pro
Honestly 36 spokes with rear panniers on fire roads and rough surfaces with 700c rim size is kinda pushing the envelope, especially if the rim is not a very stiff one. That's why on offroad touring frame bags and very light loads on the rear rack are a much more sensible choice. even with 32 spokes the slackening of the lowest spokes is a bit worrying, 36 spokes starts to have small enough gaps between the spokes to take great rear loads on gravel and if one wants to go offroad 26" rim is a must as the gaps between the spokes of the 36 spoke wheel are tiny.
03-10-16 | 12:49 PM
#196
Seņor Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,070
Likes: 306
it was me. And I stand by it. The wheels are too lightweight for what the bike is marketed for. If the rim was a seriously heavy duty radially extremely stiff specialty rim and the spokes were triple butted it might be worth considering, but since the spokes are apparently not even butted but straight gauge and the rim is a lower mid range MTB rim (bontrager no less) there's no snow balls chance in you know where for those wheels to survive 4 pannier off road touring (that is what the bike is marketed for).
Honestly 36 spokes with rear panniers on fire roads and rough surfaces with 700c rim size is kinda pushing the envelope, especially if the rim is not a very stiff one. That's why on offroad touring frame bags and very light loads on the rear rack are a much more sensible choice. even with 32 spokes the slackening of the lowest spokes is a bit worrying, 36 spokes starts to have small enough gaps between the spokes to take great rear loads on gravel and if one wants to go offroad 26" rim is a must as the gaps between the spokes of the 36 spoke wheel are tiny.
Honestly 36 spokes with rear panniers on fire roads and rough surfaces with 700c rim size is kinda pushing the envelope, especially if the rim is not a very stiff one. That's why on offroad touring frame bags and very light loads on the rear rack are a much more sensible choice. even with 32 spokes the slackening of the lowest spokes is a bit worrying, 36 spokes starts to have small enough gaps between the spokes to take great rear loads on gravel and if one wants to go offroad 26" rim is a must as the gaps between the spokes of the 36 spoke wheel are tiny.
03-10-16 | 01:05 PM
#197
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 45,234
Likes: 23,396
I am about 215 lbs. and don't go ultralight. Sounds like I should work for the postal service cuz I have ridden hundreds of miles of dirt/gravel/rock roads with rear panniers on the stock Alex Adventurer 700c wheels that came with my '11 LHT. Some of those miles have been jar-your-fillings-loose miles. Planning to ride at least another 80 in Montana in June. Haven't broken a spoke yet. In fact, I think the wheel has only been trued once or twice.
03-10-16 | 01:42 PM
#198
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 525
From: Turku, Finland, Europe
Bikes: 2011 Specialized crux comp, 2013 Specialized Rockhopper Pro
I only really have my experience and knowledge of reading up on the subject and doing my own bike mechanics and building my own wheels and others for the last 10 or so years. And I'm not saying 28 spoke wheels can't work if they're well enough specced. I'm saying the trek 920 wheels aren't well specced. And I do have experience with bontrager rims. Crappiest rims I ever built, man those were horrid.
03-10-16 | 01:46 PM
#199
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 525
From: Turku, Finland, Europe
Bikes: 2011 Specialized crux comp, 2013 Specialized Rockhopper Pro
I am about 215 lbs. and don't go ultralight. Sounds like I should work for the postal service cuz I have ridden hundreds of miles of dirt/gravel/rock roads with rear panniers on the stock Alex Adventurer 700c wheels that came with my '11 LHT. Some of those miles have been jar-your-fillings-loose miles. Planning to ride at least another 80 in Montana in June. Haven't broken a spoke yet. In fact, I think the wheel has only been trued once or twice.