They take this MAP stuff seriously.

Todson hires Oris Intel for MAP monitoring | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

I thought it was a thread about validating the existence of the word as. There is no question mark so I assumed it was not a query seeking what as is ie. As Is? but rather a statement: As Is.

Whether that qualifies as a fact or an opinion I will leave to loftier minds.

I thought it was referring to the plural of A and I. As Is.

AAAAAAAAAAA IIIIIIIIII

Is it just me or does this sound like a violation of antitrust regulations?

It depends on the meaning of "is", start about 1 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZBm-d5Yqs

Someone is making money on monitoring this. Interesting. https://www.orisintel.com

And a little more light reading on the subject.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/comp...cturer-imposed

Ahh... back when politicians had class.

When I saw "as is" I first thought it was about a disclaimer of any warranty of merchantability. Thank you for "micturate", I've learned a new word. Maybe it will come in handy doing crossword puzzles.

Maybe not quite as good as Jake, dude is quite amazing. I remember first hearing him and being like holy moly, on that? really? WOW! I mean if we make this a regular thing who knows maybe we could get Jake to stop in a jam with us. My hope is to maybe get it to the point we are doing a small but regular session like you might see at any good pub in Ireland but the idea was not mine so who knows what is going to happen with it.

I can make quite a bit of noise with one of my harps, if you need more people for a blues jam...wait, what was this thread about again?

I don't even remember! Something about bikes or something?

Just arrived today from a US supplier. Thanks for lowering your prices, Shimano!

Nice! It sucks Shimano sometimes is really awesome and then sometimes sucks out loud with their distribution and such. I am trying to get some pedals in for a customer and we might not be able to get them very easily.

Yes, it would be nice if the company were to allow their prices to be lowered equally so that the end users could purchase them at the same price regardless of which country they ship from.

Why didn't you get the 11-42t cassette?

Jenson USA?

Such a slight difference between the 40 and 42, so I opted for closer spacing. This is going to mostly see commuting and flatland duty, so no need to go crazy. BTD.

No facts just crazy assumptions!!

I cannot resist, irony anyone.

I agree with you, as far as you went. However, I'd like to add: and, people who know very well, also know that there are situations when paying $4k for a touring bike is money well spent.

I'll agree as long as my car does point A to point B, I don't care. Obviously some folks feel the same about their bicycles. So be it. I want a better quality bicycle and will pay for it, necessary? no! . I have no problem with the difference of opinion.
But when someone says their $1K bicycle is as good or even better than a $5K bicycle? They are being extremely foolish.

Then again a $500 frame with $1k in parts can be leaps and bounds better for touring than $2k bike which is marketed for touring but wholly unsuitable for the task in its sold form due to designer foolishness.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a 1k bike is better than a 5k bike since with that 5k you either get custom and/or all of the possible gadgetry you could ever want on a bike tour (hub dynamos and the works). But like in all bicycles the law of diminishing gains applies. So that 5k CoMotoion may be slightly better than a Surly LHT for example, but it's sure is not 5 times better even if the price is 5 times higher. They're made from the same steel anyways (chemical composition). But with CoMotion you get the nice made in USA sticker (which for a European may or may not be as good as made in Taiwan, American labor isn't all that good, made in Germany however, that's the ticket) and more importantly you can get custom geometry, which can be quite important for people with unconventional proportions. If I were to get one I'd have to get a custom anyways as their largest sizes are really quite small (their size 62 in the americano is more like a 58 in usual touring bike sizing)

this type of thinking is a product of a consumer economy, where marketing has
indoctrinated us to believe price = quality, but more importantly has instilled
the belief that greater price = greater prestige. look at me! i'm special!

i'm not sure people are saying a $1K bicycle is as good as a $5K bicycle, at
least not in terms of retail price value. i think what they're saying is a $1K
touring bicycle is a better tool for loaded touring than a crispy, brittle, $5K
carbon fiber zoom-zoom racing machine.

you're comparing apples and rutabagas, where the only similar aspect between
the two is the currency symbol. does it really matter that rutabagers cost
$12/pound vs "inferior" apples at $3/pound....if momma's makin' apple pie?

you "test drived" an unloaded LHT and an unloaded inferior 920 for 5 minutes
each in a wally-world parking lot. you purchased an overpriced, under-engineered
gee-whiz-don't-i-look-cool product for two grand and then bolted on a bunch
of make-me-look-cooler gadgets for who knows how much more.....based on
your ten minutes of touring experience....around your neighborhood?

How much actual real world touring with gear have you done?

Cheers

I'll preface this post with the declaration that I have a LHT and my wife has a Co-Motion.

What did she get with the Co-Motion that I did not get with the LHT, or is not an option with a LHT?
-Custom fit (excellent fit) for a short person that has fit issues.
-Couplers installed. Butted tubing at the couplers. Not the case for DT.
-Custom placement of water bottle bosses on the seat tube to facilitate placement of FD with Mtn. crankset. This is often an issue on small frame bikes.
-A 47cm frame that fits 700c wheels.
-Beautiful welding and finish.
-Excellent customer service. The Co-Motion shop is only 45 minutes from our house. I have several stories about this, but too long to share here.
-Lifetime frame warranty.
-A very nice retirement present from her husband

Does her Co-Motion tour any better than my LHT, which cost less than half the cost? No—I built both bikes with essentially the same drivetrain components, except the hubs. The cranks, STI shifters, derailleurs, cassette, chain, spokes, rims, racks, lights, and tires are exactly the same. The point in my previous post was just this: there are times when spending the extra money is justified, and there are other situations when spending the extra $ are not needed to get a tool that will do the job. In my case, I can fit most normal frames with a little tweaking. I do have to admit, the long top tubes on the LHT come pretty close to making it a poor fit for me. However, there are other bikes in a similar price range that fit well.

10 years ago I had my custom built Arvon1 put together with my supplied 48 spoke PW hubs etc. Only changed brake pads since and a few other tweaks - like new chains etc. All else is still as in 2006. No point in "fixing" what is not broken. Had a front rack re-done at an auto-body shop. -but that was a fit issue, nothing else.

YMMV, but I go for the distance and put up with tiny issues that are not worth dealing with. Now as my body ages (68 in June) I cannot even be bothered with body issues either. the bike and the body are still Ok for bicycle touring - for now