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is 36 spokes really enough for a heavier rider on tour?

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is 36 spokes really enough for a heavier rider on tour?

Old 04-14-16, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
Thanks. Yes, they do. I am a bit put off by the price. I guess that the plan is to wear my current rims and eventually rebuild with CSS rims.

Any idea why these rims are not carried by major online operators?
Rigida (the previous name for Ryde) was common in USA several decades ago, but the last time I saw a wheel sold in USA at retail with a Rigida rim was about a decade ago.

I have no clue why a lot of things available for bike touring in Europe are virtually unavailable in USA, or if they are the cost is absurdly high. And the cost of the CSS rims is roughly double the cost of the non-CSS rims. I thought for several days about the additional cost for the rims before I decided to order the CSS version. And then of course the CSS brake pads increased the price even more.
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Old 04-14-16, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Is that an undished rear wheel?

For a dished wheel I would prefer the 36 spoke wheel. I recall reading in Rohloff literature where they calculated that an undished wheel was much stronger than a dished one.
Yes. The hub is for 10-speed derailleur and cassette plus disc, so the wheel is virtually undished (I haven't checked to be absolutely accurate on that). And of course the wide drop-out width on the Santana helps with all that, along with a more even distribution of weight between front and rear.

Nevertheless, the combined weight of Machka and me would not approach that of a loaded touring bike by any stretch.

I think FBinNY has a pretty good illustration with the "softness" of rims, and I can't help but think that the days of single-wall rims for touring should be well behind us, that double-wall rims are standard, and that the extrusion design as well as rolling technology used by the major, quality manufacturers should have overcome issues with that softness.
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Old 04-14-16, 11:45 PM
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Had I known about the Ryde Andra 30 I would have probably gotten that instead of the TK540, but the 100e price tag is still pretty hefty. But considering that the Andra is a pretty traditional in design whereas the TK 540 is relatively high tech with steel eyelets, I hope they are pretty equal when strength is considered. The Andra does have the CSS option but I'm not sure that for me it would be such a bonus as I mostly use the front disc brake for all braking and the rear Vee is more of backup.
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Old 04-15-16, 02:49 AM
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elcruxio, Rowan's remark about the Santana reminded me of an issue I had with mine. Mine was equipped with 40 hole wheels and Hadley Racing hubs. The low flange hub simply had too many holes drilled and I broke out a piece of one flange in the rear hub. In that regard you may actually be better off with a 36 spoke wheel. The bike wasn't used for touring and only had one of my tweener daughters for the stoker. Very little stress for a tandem.

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Old 04-15-16, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Rigida (the previous name for Ryde) was common in USA several decades ago, but the last time I saw a wheel sold in USA at retail with a Rigida rim was about a decade ago.

I have no clue why a lot of things available for bike touring in Europe are virtually unavailable in USA, or if they are the cost is absurdly high. And the cost of the CSS rims is roughly double the cost of the non-CSS rims. I thought for several days about the additional cost for the rims before I decided to order the CSS version. And then of course the CSS brake pads increased the price even more.
Based on what I read, it was money well spent.
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Old 04-15-16, 06:50 AM
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CSS means what?
Thanks!
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Old 04-15-16, 07:13 AM
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is 36 spokes really enough for a heavier rider on tour?

https://www.ryde.nl/technology

Carbide supersonic
(CSS)
Our highest quaiity for optimal braking
Almost everlasting sides.
Special brake blocks required, produced by Magura, Koolstop, Swissstop
Optimal brakeperformance in wet weather conditions.
CSS is a Ryde Patented design
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Old 04-15-16, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowan
...
I think FBinNY has a pretty good illustration with the "softness" of rims, and I can't help but think that the days of single-wall rims for touring should be well behind us, that double-wall rims are standard, and that the extrusion design as well as rolling technology used by the major, quality manufacturers should have overcome issues with that softness.
Fully agree. I worked in a bike shop in the early 70s, a lot of the cheaper bikes had chromed steel rims that were very soft, that is where I learned about wheel building and truing. But all wheels back then had a lot of spokes, it was the spokes that provided the rigidity.

Originally Posted by imi
https://www.ryde.nl/technology

Carbide supersonic
(CSS)
Our highest quaiity for optimal braking
Almost everlasting sides.
Special brake blocks required, produced by Magura, Koolstop, Swissstop
Optimal brakeperformance in wet weather conditions.
CSS is a Ryde Patented design
Yeah, there is no Aluminum oxide brake dust on my wheels or brake pads as the rims do not wear the way that Aluminum alloys do. And even dirt and mud wears off the wheel instead of wearing out the rim.



High mileage users report that the rims get more polished over time and eventually are not very good for braking power when wet, but I am not there yet, that takes a lot of miles. The braking is not quite as good now as it initially was as my rims are getting a bit more polish over time.
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Old 04-15-16, 10:08 PM
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You're way overthinking this. My bike, cargo and me come to 300lbs. I'm using $25 alex adventurers with 36 holes and Tiagra hubs. Secret is Sapim Strong spokes. You have a lot better everything... except maybe the spokes.
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Old 04-16-16, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
The 4 spoke thing comes from a fundamental lack of understanding of how tension structures (like wheels) work. These transmit force by subtraction rather than addition.

In the case of a bicycle wheel, some tension is lost from a small number of bottom spokes with all but the bottom spokes seeing an slight increase. The front and back side spoke tension changes cancel out, but the combination of tension reduction below the hub with a slight increase above upsets the equilibrium providing a net upward force to support the hub.

Keep in mind that the spokes and rim are part of a system with each element contributing. The rim's part is to act like an arch bridge, to spread local loads beyone the one bottom area closest to the ground. How far it spreads that load depends on the relative stiffness of both the rim and spokes and how they equalize the local stresses between them. If the rim is deep (stiff) enough, it will barely deflect, so you'd see a slight tension decrease below and increase above the hub spread among all the spokes. A shallower (less stiff) rim will see a bigger drop on the lowest few spokes, with the increase spread among the rest (including some lower half spokes).

Those who argue whether the hub is supported from above or below, are missing the key point that it's a system and the hub is supported by all the spokes, and what changes is the balance of tension top and bottom.

Having read many descriptions of how a wheel functions in terms of tensions and loads, I think the above one best describes this in a way which is both logical and understandable to the reader.
Many thanks.
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