I've tried both and it's flats forever for me...

Pros:

--Inexpensive. My BMX pedals were $20 and I love them.
--Total comfort on the bike and no you don't need still soled shoes
--Greater comfort off the bike with normal shoes.
--No need for a second pair of shoes
-- I feel safer with flats and had an incident the convinced me of this.
--Freedom to make micro adjustments to avoid injury.
--It just feels better to me.
--The satisfaction of NOT having bought something that is bicycle specific that you really don't need.

Having said all this if clipless does something for you that's great. Many people love them and if it makes them happier on their bikes that's all that matters.

SPD! I dig flats for short rides on a non-fixed gear bicycle but for most everything else foot retention is way better then not having it. Toe clips and straps don't really do the job well when I need to get out of them because properly used they are tight on the foot and still use cleats (though probably way way less so now).

If you do go with flat pedals invest in a good set. Cheap plastic pedals don't last long and will give you headaches. Your top end bet would be White Industries pedals with Bruce Gordon Half Clips: Stainless strapless Toe Clips ? Nothing is better than a bike that fits All MUSA and super high quality and $40 bucks cheaper as a set. However you can find cheaper options and various high quality flat options.

Five Ten started out selling rock climbers shoes .. then the rubber has to be grippy

Flats Pro: You don't need to change your shoes to if you fish on a muddy bank.

SPD Con: You get mud in your cleats when fishing on a muddy bank.


(They make Flats with little metal spikes in them. They're darn grippy, too.)

I keep hearing this here. I have to shake my head. Toeclips and straps were one of the huge steps up for me in my cycling journey many years ago. Cleats and pulling the straps tight were another. Like tightening the bolts on an engine head. If I don't pull my straps tight, I regularly pull my cleat off the pedal.

Plus I do not have the patience to sit and slowly grind my way up to speed when I start out. As soon as I am in the toeclips, I am out of the saddle and pulling that foot up. Uphill, that is a core part of my climbing (and much better on my CP knees). Also I get to spin faster in confidence knowing my foot won't slip off. (Those pins some here like so much only work while you are applying back pressure on the pedal coming up. That's resistance!)

I hear these studies and I look at my experience actually riding. Then again, I have known a long time that the word "everyone" didn't include me. But I am also not so arrogant that I think I am unique.

Ben

Yeah, I don't know the details of that study, but there is obviously a flaw. It doesn't jive at all with my experience. Was testing done on a stationary bike? If tests were done with riders ramping up to max sustainable power spinning like you would in a paceline, then I could believe there's just a subtle backing off on the up stroke. IOW not quite pulling up. When climbing, or in sprints, or starting up when extra torque is needed - then you are often pulling up HARD, very hard...

I've ridden with foot retention since I was about 10. Occasionally I'll ride a borrowed bike or do a test ride with flats, but most of the riding has been with foot retention.

I had used casual shoes with toeclips for many years, and may go back to them sometime. However, I found the cage pedals were eating into my shoes, and the feet were twisting to the outside so I changed to SPDs, and couldn't be happier.

I can't say if I'd experience the same thing with casual shoes and flats. But, after 12 hours a day and still riding, I'm comfortable with the feet attached the pedals.

Yeah, I've read some of that. Some of the studies are just poorly designed, essentially taking away any advantage of pulling up by fixing cadence and power and asking the rider to start pulling up (necessarily creating lower power on the opposite side due to study design).

Even if you're just "unweighting" the foot to 0, it is nice for the foot to be attached to the pedals rather than pulling off.

I know I don't pull up all the time. But, I do pull up some of the time. I.E. hills, major accelerations, and even micro accelerations. Also pulling cargo. I also don't spin at 100 RPM "like a pro", so the riding of a casual rider and a pro rider may be quite different. Yet, whenever you see a pro rider stand up out of the saddle, they're likely pulling up, at least a little bit.

And, at least when standing, pulling up with one pedal also equates to pushing down with more force with the opposite pedal. It may not be a lot, but say you pull up with 5-10 lbs force, and push down with an equivalent 5-10 lbs more force, that may be an increase in instantaneous power of 10% or more. Not something to scoff about. Of course, you still have to breathe, and supply the muscles with oxygen which can be a limiting factor. So, it likely helps with short bursts of power, but doesn't lead to an overall increase in long-term efficiency.

It would be interesting to give a competitive Pro team flats, and see how they perform. I doubt the experiment would last long.

Anyway, I realize pedal choice is quite personal. And, there are people who do well with flats, and people who do well with foot retention. I was on a hill ride with a fellow BF member. I had cleats, he had flats. I was impressed by his riding. But, he also walked a few of the steep sections that I rode, although walking may have been more energy efficient, and one could make the argument that one is sometimes better off just getting off the bike and walking and getting to the top of the hill refreshed rather than completely energy drained.

Extra shoes can be a problem. If I'm mainly just riding then my riding shoes are fine. If I'm expecting to return to a destination (friend's house, or a regular long-distance destination), then I've been known to leave a pair of shoes there.

I toured with BMX pedals. I like being able to shift my foot fore and aft on the pedal. I also like being able to walk comfortably off the bike without taking a second pair of shoes. I've never had any of the problems for which clipless pedals are supposedly a solution.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=518842

I did all of the foot retention business including SPDs for a long time. The past six years have been on platforms with zero difference in performance. Recently I've been riding fixed with platforms and have zero problems. Different strokes I suppose but I subscribe to this: http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/...dal-Stroke.pdf

Less things to go wrong and less spares to carry for longer / remote tours. Spare cleat bolts or cleats.

less foot wear to carry on tour, especially if your crossing very different climates. Sandals and boots for deserts, jungles and mountains.

The ease of walking off the bike ( I use MTB shoes which are ok off the bike but far from comfy!)

When in cities and town during hours of traffic and finding accommodation / warm showers locations, stopping navigation checks. I found that i was clicking in and out all the time and its becomes very tiresome.

On the longer uninterutped sections I prefer SPD's for sure, maybe these combination flat and SPD's are the way to go. Are these weight biased so that they always settle in a flat up position and you need to flip then over to get at the other side?

Doesn't square w/my 'sperience, steep climbs are quite easier with clips/bindings than flats. Don't know how those pro tests were done but when they attack hills they seem to use every muscle available. OTOH I once read that a coach told a certain rider to worry less about pulling up & being smooth & focus on good ole' downward pedal squashing.

I'm running Shimano T780s and I haven't noticed any problems with them flipping one way or another. I'd argue that it's more annoying than them being weight biased since I actually need to check which side is up whenever I get on.

Flats. I ride a lot in the winter, snow and ice make any spd type pedal useless.

Some of my mountain bike friends use flats and skate shoes. I use SPD on mountain bike and SPD-SL on road. My flats friends seem to have no power advantage over me and a big advantage in being able to step off the bike to avoid bad crashes. I think there are a few small advantages to clipless but I don't think that more power is really one of them. I do think that a person with the proper technique can produce more power for a short time with clipless by focusing on a completely round pedal stroke while seated. Max power is only going to come from a full "balls out" sprint where you're out of the saddle and stomping like crazy, thats how the leg is designed to produce power.

On a recent gravel ride my left crank arm fell off my bike. I rode the last 5 miles of the course with only the right crank arm. I've done one leg drills in the past but quickly realized that the only way to finish the ride one legged was going to be a huge downward power stroke in a big gear so I could pull up the leg on the up stroke without completely engaging the freewheel. I think if a person did extensive one legged drills the up muscles would develop to the point where they could have a nice round spin. There are examples of people doing awesome rides with one leg for instance.

So why do I use clipless. The few times I've tried to ride flats my feet are all over the pedals as I still have my upward pulling pedal stroke engrained into my brain. I'm so accustomed to having my feet locked in place that it feels completely wrong for them not to be.

I'm sure that those who advocate against clipless pedals have developed a pedal stroke that focuses on the downward motion and have learned to keep their feet still through the rest of the motion, in some ways clipless pedals and toe clips are like a crutch. Still I can't imagine anyone keeping up a decent 90 RPM cadence for a long time with flats.

For me, it was not only ease and comfort but also safety. When I walked on rocky ground with MTB shoes (that's a part of my touring style), the cleat would too often slip on a rock. When those shoes wore out, that's one of the reasons I did not replace them.

I also liked living with one less pair of shoes in my closet, but that's a different minimalist story of doing more with less.

I have never had my feet attached to my pedals before. Every bike I have ever had was platforms.

That having been said, my rides can be upwards of 8-10 hours of seat/pedal time over a day. I like the freedom of platforms. My feet move around forwards/backwards on the pedals to shift the contact points. If my calves are worn out I move my feet forwards to decrease the wear on my calves. I don't ride fast - average close to 10mph, on a full day that may drift off to about a 9 average.

Due to some knee problems that I developed last riding season and some research I have done, here on BF and elsewhere, I have just made the switch to SPD. I am hoping for two things - more power and to curb my knee problems. I don't expect SPD's to be the only remedy, but that opens up the ability to work my leg muscles in totally new/different ways that aren't possible without my feet being locked to my pedals.

That having been said, I am not in any way ready to give up the freedom of platforms for a day of riding so I am going to run reversible SPD/platforms. I will loose the efficiency of the side of the pedal I am putting my foot on not mattering as both sides aren't the same, but efficiency there doesn't matter to me one bit.

So the way I see it is reversible pedals give me the ability to take care of 3 riding needs - the two benefits I mentioned before for SPD's - more power, less risk of injury, with the added bonus of unclipping and having the free range of platform pedals when I want that, or if my calves need a break from the fixed foot position.

This riding season will be different for me for a variety of reasons. We'll see how I get along as the miles add.

These look good because of the Grip Pins and the built in Reflectors .. but, perhaps not on sale Yet..
Shimano XT goes on Tour with new T8000 trekking group - Bikerumor

Again,if people want to use SPDs on tour that's great, but the choice should not be made because of imagined deficiencies with flats. I can't remember the last time I "attacked" a hill on tour, and I also can't remember when I felt flats were somehow inadequate for climbing a hill. Also, a cadence of 90 is not at all difficult to maintain with flats. So ride what you want, but don't disparage flats because it's unimaginable that they will actually work for riding a bike.

90RPM is steady cruising. No problem at all for platforms.

I've had to attack hills whilst touring, tight hair pin bends on steep mountain passes. Even 22- 34 gearing with 26" wheels was almost too high, the only thing that got me past the bends was being able to pull up. Sure beat my partners experience, it really looked like pushing a loaded bike sucked.
If you are worried about the locked in feeling, get some Click'r pedals. They're a lot easier to get out of. My partner, who hates SPDs swears by them. I swear because I have to buy them now for all her bikes.

flats most of the time.
https://goo.gl/photos/JELTF6qrg8a9DyDt7
for a 5 day bike ride i forgot my stiffer soled (souled?) running shoes and only had really flimsy TOMs for 5 days of riding. longest day, 115 miles.
no problems with anything and happy not having to bring along walking shoes & clippy bike shoes.

Here's the thing *you don't need two pairs of shoes*. If I can climb up and back 1600m vertical metres of slippery volcano in a day in SPDs then they are probably pretty good walking shoes. Probably better than a set of trainers. In fact they are better than trainers for long distance over rough terrain because, just like good walking boots, they have a shank. A pair of SPD walking boots or shoes for everywhere and a pair of rubber sandals for camp and you are sorted.

Yep.

The one caveat I have is that some soles on cycling shoes aren't conducive to clambering over smooth basalt or dolomite types of rock. They can be quite slippery even when the surface is dry. Cleats can also be an added issue if you are rock-hopping.

But I have done a number of trips to other countries with just cycling shoes and flip-flops or croc knock-offs for in-camp wear.

I feel much safer clipped in. My feet don't slide around or off the pedal the way my feet do on flats.

You would not run in bicycle shoes!! So why consider riding a bicycle in running shoes.
The right shoe for the right job.

FWIW https://www.google.com/search?q=clip...utf-8&oe=utf-8

I have gone back and forth and can't discern a difference.