FWIW I would have given anything for a pair of Tevas when I was backpacking around europe in the 80s on gap semester. Consider squeezing a pair into your bag. No more space than flip flops, and you can hike in them.

Please read more closely. I've responded several times in this thread that I ride clipless and flats. I rode clipless exclusively from the mid '80s up until just a few years ago when I decided I wanted to simplify for commuting and in town riding. That then extended to switching over to flats full time on six of my seven bikes. The only one on which I still use clipless is my racer.

The marketing hype is that people think they can't ride to the end of their driveway without putting on clipless shoes. Just not so. For some folks like yourself, specifically aligning the knees, etc. is a real thing, and I acknowledge that. But flats do not present a safety issue. I just did a short--4 day, 400 mile--tour in mid April, all, as in years past, with pinned flats. It was fine. Great, actually.

Unless I'm trying to spin over 100 (my cadence on my road bike is typically about 105) I really don't notice that I'm not clipped in. And don't tell me I'm exaggerating. It's true. That may not be your experience, but then it sounds like your experience with flats is very limited. Lastly, the 1 pr of shoes argument may not hold water for you, but some prefer to stick to 1 pair. They are not forcing you to do so. They are simply saying that for them that's a benefit, in the same way you are stating that for YOU clipless pedals and a second pair of walking/hiking/whatever shoes is a benefit.

Might do just that! I need a new pair of sandals anyways (actually, this upcoming trip is making me realize that a whole lot of worn out stuff needs replaced :) )

Before anyone else gets too hung up on it, my taking care of shoes comment was a quick response to a comment that there was nothing involved besides a 30 second swap out of shoes. Apparently, there are many ways to do it, never meant it to be that serious!

That said, I'm still a put the shoes on in the morning, take them off at bed, and don't bother with them otherwise type person. Don't even bother with removing them when I change from work pants to jeans or cycle shorts at the end of the work day!

I hope you're not saying people riding SPD's don't know how to ride flat pedals...

No, just one guy who seems to be unable to ride to the corner store without an issue. 99.9% of the rest of us seem to get it.

Hans Stucke bike toured continuously for 50 years over hundreds of thousands of kilometers on flat pedals.

I switched to clipless about 1992. Then switched back to toe-clips several months ago. I prefer toe-clips. I like being able to ride in ordinary shoes, not clacking on the concrete and walking with my heals too low. I can finally keep my feet warm in the winter without spending big money on boots that are clipless.

I have to admit that I switched to clipless at least in part because it was what "serious" cyclist did. The dogma doesn't work anymore.

I'ld use something heavier than a plastic grocery bag or such for the extra shoes on the bicycle. Consider a stuff sack maybe from Rei, or a turkey baking bag.
I can feel my ankles and knees poorly aligned on the 1 mile trip to the grocery. Maybe that's just my anatomy? 60 miles in crocs on Look pedals was a mistake I'll never repeat.
But let me ask, is riding 60 miles in trainers any much better? I'll take your word on it, but I'm not gonna try it.
By the way my around town bicycle does have clips and straps, I feel more secure in those than flats.

I did about 4000km last year (some long days, 2x300km and a 400km) in a pair of basic shimano spd shoes but without the cleats... used bmx style flat pedals for my clown sized feet. I finally got spd pedals and cleats last september and it was kinda nice being clipped in. I'd used them years ago so I haven't had any crashes. I didn't notice any speed increases or anything but my feet don't slip off in the rain so that's kinda nice. Personally I wouldn't ride more than a couple klicks in a pair of crocs, they are probably worse than riding barefoot. My first tour I did with a pair of keen sandals and bmx pedals. I did the same weekend tour twice, with the same bike and shoes, once with the cleats and once on the bmx flats. I was slightly faster with the cleats but the difference amounted to a 0.6km/h average so I would say for me it's been a wash so far. The nice thing about some of the spd shoes is they are velcro so there aren't laces to get caught up. The rigid soles also improved my comfort. I wouldn't say cleats are needed but they aren't terribly expensive to try if one is having some issues it could be a solution.

Here is something interesting from GCN. Looks at clipless vs flats from an efficiency point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM

hey, wally....a little help here. if i use toe clips when i ride, i'm "strapped" in.
but if i get cleats and spd's, the toe clips are gone, and i'm going clipless.
why then is it called being "clipped" in? :twitchy:

Pretty much agrees with my experience.

My perceived need for clipless is when I am spinning at 100+, sprinting out of the saddle or don't have the necessary gearing to make it up a hill by spinning. Otherwise, concerning efficiency, it's a wash and my flats are fine.

One thing I thought was odd was that they had him ride pinned pedals with clipless shoes. His sense that he was about to come off the pedals makes sense in that case, as I can't imaging the lugged soles really did much for grabbing the pins. Flat soled sticky shoes don't give one that "about to come off" feeling. I even do the same on bike stretching with flats as with my clipless, meaning I put the crank arms at 12 and 6 and stretch my heel down as far as it will go. With the soft soled sticky shoes I still feel locked in to the pedals. I'm not sure I could to that with lugged shoes that don't grab the pins as well.

Like others, I couldn't imaging riding with Crocs, on any kind of pedal, and I think for the same reason I don't like big squishy saddles. Crocs would make me feel as if there's no real point of contact between my foot and the pedal.

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "trainers." Running Shoes? Not sure I would want to ride with running shoes, but many do and are fine with it. I've really liked the 5.10s that I use in temperate weather and the Salomon Toundra boots (lugged, but very soft soled) at 20F and below.

I think that's because toe-clips were invented first. Then when "clipless" was invented it was seen as getting rid of the toe-clips and replacing them with the cleat/spd pedal combo and named on that basis. Clipless would never have been named that if toe-clips had not existed.

Maybe. Some people do seem to need to be locked in to maintain a certain form.

For most of us who put significant use into platforms, we can just position our feet to give the same leg motion regardless of pedal type. How I decide to set my cleats on my clipless shoes is basically the same process as how I choose where to place my foot on a platform pedal.

I've never done 60 miles in crocs on Look pedals, but I have done rides in that distance range on my MTB, using running shoes and platforms, and felt fine.

A lot of squishy shoes don't grip platforms very well, and you weren't actually using platform pedals, so I can definitely imagine that the ride would be nightmarish. I think in general, a lot of the poor perception of platforms comes from people not actually trying a half-decent platform setup; 6800 SPD-SL pedals are certainly an upgrade from stock Wellgos, but so are decent platforms with better grip. In your case, you're criticizing platforms based on a ride where you weren't even using pedals that were intended to be used as platforms; if you tried to lay on your back on the saddle of an upright bicycle, would you conclude that recumbents are uncomfortable based on the experience?

No it's not just that 1 ride. I'm much happier in clipless. I've said several times I feel much safer. I'l ride flats to the grocery store but not much farther.

That's been my experience, also.

I don't understand how some of the same people who feel like they need clipless pedals to keep their feet from slipping off the pedals have so much trouble making a simple adjustment of foot position on a flat pedal.

Ha ha ha! Thats a strong comparison right there. Top notch counter!

http://www.bikejames.com/strength/do...ipless-pedals/

According to this "test," flats are more efficient than clipless.

And this test is not a fair test at all; the test rider used road shoes rather than a shoe with flat shoe sole.

1- Your knees and ankles are misaligned on a 1 mile ride? So then align them so they are comfortable. Your foot is on a pedal where there are infinite positioning options. Just move your feet so your ankles and knees are 'aligned' how you want.
This is a really odd complaint and argument for not using platforms since they are, above all other pedals, the most versatile in getting a comfortable foot position since its whatever you want.

2- What are 'trainers'? I genuinely dont know what you mean with this term. Do people have shoes for spin class that they dont then use on their bike?...I use the same for both. This is a guess as to what you mean since its the only thing I can think of.

3- As another poster said, you rode a metric century in footwear that is barely socially acceptable out of the house and is woefully lacking for any sort of athletic activity. You are then using that experience and applying it to platform pedals. Its an absurd conclusion, especially since you didnt use the very platform pedals you claim are lacking.

4- Your around town has both clips AND straps? Isnt that redundant?...or what clip/shoe combo are you referring to specifically?

I don't know where he is, but my British/Euro friends use "trainers" in the way we'd use "tennis shoes", just a generic term for athletic footware people may wear whilst out and about.

I've never ridden 60 miles in one sitting, but I've done 45ish enough times in running shoes to know it isn't a ride killer, barring the shoes themselves being worn out or ill fitting to begin with. I can recognize there are many situations where my platform pedals aren't ideal, but I rarely find myself in any of those situations to begin with, and am more than capable of dealing for the random time I come across them.

Yes, the terminology is a bit confusing. When Look came out with "clipless" I suppose that "binding" pedals might have sounded restrictive even though it's more precise.

I kinda like the Brit term "trainers". American "sneakers" is a bit outmoded & "running shoes" a bit over-specific.

BTW interesting about Hans Stucke, the German mega-tourist. At first I wondered if that was the famous German racing driver but no, his last name spelled w/o an "e". Stuck the driver was an incredible ace: once saw a video of his feet working during a road race doing heel-toe, left-foot braking, right-foot braking etc in rapid progression. Proper shoes, of course, being a must there. :thumb:

"trainers" is a term for athletic shoes used by non-'merkan english speakers.
'merkans generally say "tennis shoes" for sporty casual shoes.
they might say "running shoes", but then they would normally be referring to
actual running shoes.....or re-purposed worn-out runners for daily wear.
honestly have never, ever heard a 'merkan use the term "trainers" except
for guys with multiple coaches.

I also like the idea if you really need to you can spend $70-100 usd to get a pro fit. A big part of it is a lasar that shows your ankle knee line up. Best way to tweek cleat position including wedges under the cleats to change ankle angle. Many racers claim significant increase in power output and even better less injuries.
I'll continue to tweek on my own, but if I can't get to where I need to be, I'll do the pro-fit. Much cheaper than trying to deal with ankle knee pain with medical people.
The shoes I tend to wear aren't exactly "sporty"
Just another 'Merkan.

Many auto racers see significant performance increases from adjustable shocks, performance exhaust, a cold air intake and an engine tune too, but I'm not rushing out to put any of that on my Fusion. It simply isn't necessary for what most do with their car.

FWIW, most of the shops that run "pro fits" with computer measurement around me are well north of those numbers. Even at Performance Bike, $70ish really only gets you basic component positioning with a guy eyeballing you up, if the guy trying to sell me the service one day was to be believed. If you can find me a laser measuring and fit service for $70, I'll gladly try it out and report back on its benefit.