Consider what happened to mopeds in the mid 80's. Mopeds had become extremely popular as auto alternatives in the mid and late 70's. At that time all they needed was a bicycle registration plate. Then came a big push to get them defined under motor-vehicle laws. With that ceom opperation limits, mandatory registration, license requirement, and motorcycle insurance. It simply killed the moped market.

Yes, many of those rules have been relaxed in recent years; but it hasn't worked. Now I know, some will say that mopeds still exist. However, no where near in the numbers and popularity as was seen in the late 70's. Those riders did not see the light and start riding bicycles. They went back to driving their autos; no, e-bikes are not mopeds. I have had mopeds. E-bikes are not ridden like mopeds, and they do not ride like mopeds. E-bikes ride like a bicycle with a tailwind, instead of a headwind (in fact, on those rare days where I am commuting with a tailwind, I just leave the electric motor off).

I do understand that some riders see the existence of e-bikes as a threat to their machismo. However, once you remove the machismo factor, legally operated e-bikes can reduce the number of cars on the road, with many benefits. As far as touring goes, those same e-bikes (other than the range issue) can make bicycle touring more accessible.

I realize that accessibility is a negative to the machismo crowd. However, for those of us who are not wound up in our image of "toughness" this is a net benefit. It is a benefit because more cycle tourists increases both awareness of cycle tourists, and increases the realization of the need for cycle tourist facilities.

Less cars, more cyclists, this is a gain; so long as cycling is more to a person than an exercise in machismo.

:p :innocent:

I have a touring bike... that I converted to an e-bike. I have never toured. However, my touring bike made an excellent commuter. My touring/e-bike makes a phenomenal commuter. I don't really care what anyone rides as long as they ride safe and their "bike of choice" meets the laws and regulations of a bicycle if they are going to use cycling infrastructure (MUP's, bike lanes.)

I think e-bike touring would be a phenomenal experience. However, I have seen that many bicycle tourists log a lot of miles everyday. That's not really possible on an e-bike. My touring/e-bike is pedal assist only and at the highest level of assist I would only have about 25-30 miles of range on the battery. At the lowest level of assist, I could maybe squeeze out 55-60 miles (but, at that level of assist it would not be worth effort of the added weight of 16 lbs of the battery and motor.) If you don't have a place to recharge a battery every night, e-bike touring really would not work out.

If we start seeing batteries that are capable of 100 miles range on a mid-level of pedal assist, that's when I think e-bike touring would really begin to interest me. I still need a place to charge on a nightly basis, however, I don't see that I would be touring too far off the beaten path anyway.

Yes, I am "pro" e-bikes (those that are legally classified as bicycles.) I also ride a carbon fiber road bike. I even have a scooter (operated as a motorized vehicle.) I just like the feeling of being on two wheels. I don't criticize anyone for riding a bicycle - e-bike or not. Just have yourself a fun and safe time.

I'm generally welcoming to e-bikes, but it irks me if some legal definitions say they aren't motorized vehicles; they clearly have motors! Make legal exceptions for them, just don't define them poorly.

Mopeds are 2-cycle gas powered noisy monstrosities that are mini-motorcycles. The fact that you're a fan speaks volumes to me.

Obviously eBikes are a huge improvement in motorized transportation.

+1

eBikes do seem like an excellent vehicle for commuting especially when replacing a car. As long a they remain part of the motorized infrastructure that permeates the world. I've got no problem with them in bike-lanes either.

Worse than heroin, fracking, GMO's and global warming? Downfall like all those scooters , motorcycles and mopeds? Chillax, dude. It's just another way of getting around. Think about a bike commuter with lots of hills or a long distance? What about the hipster eco mom with a cargo bike to drop off her 2 kids and then get groceries? And takes one more car off the road. Not my cup off tea for me, but choices are a good thing. What about 1,000 cars off the road? Don't like the rules? Change them or move to the EU, where they are very popular these days. And maybe try some decafe.

We are talking about using leg-assisted motor bikes for touring, not fetching groceries. Western civilization can probably survive using motor bikes for beer runs.

Love the tread, a lot of passion out there. People cycle for many reasons, health, sport, commute, environment. An e-bike takes a gas powered vehicle off the road and I believe that is a good thing. Also never judge a cyclist until you have tried their pedelec between your legs. You never know, you might like it.

I think you and others are missing the point. The offence is that the bicycle is now being redefined as a vehicle that may be motorized. That means there is no longer any 100%-human-powered-two-wheeled-vehicle defined in the entire world. I and others are appalled. eBikes are motor-vehicles not bicycles. I don't give a flying-fruitcake what you ride on the motorized infrastructure that blankets world. Enjoy and have fun on your eBikes, scooters, mopeds, Harleys, autos, trucks, and RV's.

Bicycles & bicycle infrastructure are for human-powered-vehicles NOT more motorized contraptions!

Think you forgot the 'If' at the beginning of that sentence.

Dang! You people need to wake up!!

10 Fastest Production Electric Bikes

http://www.electricbike.com/wp-conte...34e76b_k-5.jpg

:thumb: Nope, it is how I roll. Short and to the point. Thanks anyway.

https://i0.wp.com/www.electricbike.c...motr.jpg?ssl=1 250 watt "assist", up to 350 watts no throttle, European legal E-Bike is what I agree with, that their law thinks/says is still a bicycle... IMO that is correct, even tho technically it is a motorized bicycle... ;)

^- What 350htrr said.

Looked at one of these while I was waiting for the salesman to return from the back room with fenders at the shop in Belgium. To be quite honest, if I were on my bike day in and day out with their infrastructure, where it was my vehicle and main mode of transport regardless of how much I actually wanted to be on a bike, it would be tempting.

This place is kind of a Belgian Performance Bike equivalent. As you can probably pick out through the Flemish, there is a whole section of electric touring bikes :D

https://www.fiets.be/sparta-mojo-e-n7-2016-heren
https://www.fiets.be/media/catalog/p...jo-e-heren.jpg

[MENTION=310598]350htrr[/MENTION] [MENTION=406915]jefnvk[/MENTION]

Ok, I get it! You guys prefer the stealth mode that hides the fact that you "need" assistance to keep-up with with the girls & guys at bicycle events and on bicycle trails. 250W is what you need to keep it up with them. So for this little "stealthy pop" you are adamant that the world redefine the bicycle as a motorized-vehicle. Really?

You fail to see that your insecure egos' have now conflated into a monster machine menace. :(:(:(:(:(

Few if any people are buying these eBikes to replace their cars. You guys are probably the more typical ones. You did pedal a bike before but got lazy and bought an eBike. These are sold in bike shop as bicycles :mad::mad::mad: people find them "more fun", forget the bike, and get the motorbike. Of course behind this entire guise is the salesman saying "don't worry it's exercise because you still have pedals".

One more request: Instead of posting European sales promo pictures why not show you and your eBike together so we can get the full real-world flavor of what's going on. Be sure to include power stats.

there's no way in hell my sister or brother would ride a bicycle to the grocery store. An E bike? Maybe??

Too bad Ebikes cost more than scooters.

When I hit 80 I just might buy an E bike.

Yes Up to 350 watts I concur with the European laws that E-Bikes should be treated as regular bicycles...


The real fail here is the American way of doing things...

Taking something that, around the world is basically agreed upon that works, is then "improved" on in America...

A basic rule of thumb that a 250 watt assist motor and no throttle and cuts out assist at 25Km shouldn't disqualify a bicycle that has one to travel where regular bicycles are allowed... :thumb:

Is taken to the 9th degree and 750 watts with throttle is basically the rule in America now (and I agree, they are mopeds in effect)... Well here is the backlash because of it, and that is because the legal limit was set too high, IMO. and...

Now, those E motor-bikes you posted are proliferating because there is also a rule that allows "off road" set ups that can have as much power as possible... And guess what again, people are going to try and get around the law and use them as pretend Legal E-Bikes because they have a switch that is supposed to restrict the power to "legal" levels which they "may" or may not use... they can "get away" with it, causing this backlash... ;)

I watched that youtube video about the Wolverine BM. It did not move-what so-ever. It's top speed was 0 MPH.
Worthless POS

Incorrect: Watch video starting at minute mark 3.54.

But its the POS the eBikers and those of their ilk have wrought upon the world in the name of cycling. :(

And it doesn't even have electronic shifting. :wtf::wtf:

Dude, it's the Pandora's Box of the motor! Because you guys can't hack it without the wind-at-your-back. Plus even if the MOTORS become regulated down from 1hp to 1/3hp I know for sure there will be mods that will be impossible to enforce :(

When I started posting on this thread I thought OK maybe there are some people with disabilities using these contraptions. But now that I've delved in the promo & marketing literature I see who the customer is. This is clearly aimed at the overly lazy & obese public as a fun bicycle replacement that will make them feel good about themselves with little effort on their part. Of course it's also being exploited by motor-heads, thrill-seekers, and techno-geeks too.

I certainly hope that the "backlash" results in the bicycle regaining its place as a 100%-human-powered vehicle and these eBikes are properly classified as motor-vehicles no matter what motor size.

That's true, there will always be people who think the laws don't apply to them... But, I think if the law was the same in N America as in Europe, things would be different. Try and ride that wolverine in Europe without a licence and insurance and see what would happen... ;) Try that on trails there and see what would happen. :twitchy: Some jail time would be in the works almost for sure.

And that was/is what it was meant for... allowing people who needed just al little bit of help to ride with motors on their bikes where bicycles where allowed to go... Yay, and it worked and worked well, still does in Europe.

Then the E-Bike thing starts to take off here in N. America, and what happens? It morphs into a big fail even I think that, because of the lax laws allowing for too much power on these bikes and still allowing them where bicycles are allowed. :rolleyes:

Sorry I've seen ZERO reports and/posts from disabled persons as to how they use eBikes. The Electric Bike Report has lots of reports about the tech and shows able bodied people who choose to be lazy. Video after video shows regular people & children barely pedaling and going fast. This whole industry is motor-biking plane and simple. Sickening waste because these unfit folks could be getting real exercise and be less of a burden on our healthcare system. I'm sure that their fitness trackers are congratulating them on a what a great job they are doing cycling.

It's actually a lot worse than I thought. There's an entire industry that will be impossible to unwrap. The loopholes they have created are more than likely already entrenched because they are making money. This is very sad to see.