I think people gave up asking for that photo.

Sorry about all the argument that threads usually devolve into when a certain dollars must equal value poster gets involved.

I doubt that comotion would put out a bike that sucked. To a certain extent you would be paying a little bit more for a name, but its a good name. I know a couple of guys who love their co-motions.

In order to get more value from your question about this bike, you need to let others know what you have in mind for it... Fully loaded touring, off or on road, short or around the world tour, whatever.

Bottom line for me personally is how does a bike ride? if the geometry fits you and you love the bike, and if you can buy it without your kids missing some meals, go for it, but only after looking carefully at other options that might work better, even if they do have a lower price point.

especially when you're not the one paying for it.

There are some reasons that people may not jump on a used Co-Motion bike, or any other custom made bike. Custom bikes are built to satisfy the needs and fit of their original owner. I wouldn't buy a used custom bike unless the owner had the same build, body dimensions, and riding style as me.

As far as resale value goes: I bought LHTs for my two daughters. Both cost $500, and are in great shape. One of them was only a year old, and used very little.

I think I'm on both sides in this pissing match; my wife rides a Co-Motion, and I ride a LHT. They both do a good job of doing what they were built to do, and they are dependable.

SB, it is not the cost per year that is important when amortizing out the initial cost of a bike a bike; it is the cost per mile.

His and Hers
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y..._Co-Motion.jpg

Welcome to the forum.

Perhaps a vain attempt to pull your thread back on topic... All-in-all, if the bike fits and will perform whatever your heart desires, it's good. The only con I can think of is if you plan to carry ~40 lb. or more routinely, I'd opt for a full fledged, expedition level, touring bike. Just a conservative suggestion, not a snipe at the bike.

A little more information from you about how you plan to use the bike and how much cargo you plan to tote will provide some better answers.

Brad

It's a nice bike but no dynamo system. For less beans you could upgrade one of the many great Taiwanese bikes with strong wheels built around a dynamo hub, led lights with good optics and a power converter like sinewave or e-werk to charge stuff.

Co-motion would do it all for a price though.

Well, last week I placed an order with Co-motion for two Deschutes (his and hers) for our upcoming cross country bicycle trip. I looked at a lot of bikes and I can't say the choice was easy (was also seriously contemplating Specialized AWOL Expert). We ended up picking the Deschutes for the following reasons:

• Good match with the loaded road touring we want to do (not interested in gravel or expedition touring and didn't want a bike that heavy or stiff)
• Better components (e.g. Shimano 105) versus components on $1500 options (Surly LHT, Trek 520)
• Brifters instead of bar end shifter (e.g Salsa Marrakesh)
• Impressed by the frame build: tubing sizes, fork design, etc. of Co-Motion
• Co-Motion is a well established name for bicycle touring
• Rather spend my money at an Oregon company with nice folks

The above reasons may or may not work for you. I do think there are better deals (I'm kind of amazed with what comes on the AWOL Expert for the same $2,500) but I think/hope I'll be happy with the frame and this should be a great bike.

Good luck on your decision.

-Scott

Very nice bicycle for $2.5K I wish it was available when I was looking a year ago. Fills a real void in quality range for touring bicycles.
To the OP, it's a Co-motion, it's hard to imagine there are any weaknesses.
To me the weakness of the Awol is that it has a dynamo,

Well according to you, a weakness of the bike is the generic tubing. Based on what I have read from you, generic 4130 tubing is half a step above a bike frame made from rusty green bean cans, even if its heat treated and double or custom butted.
If it doesnt say Reynolds or Columbus...its crap! ...always funny that Tange, Ishiwata, and True Temper arent even mentioned. Apparently they dont even get recognized as brands.


In all seriousness though, why is a dynamo a weakness?

So you have a battery that lights up the road for 12 hours of brevet riding and costs only $20? Where can I get one?

The way LHT uses AISI 4130 double butted tubing... Do you mean like Salsa and Trek do too? Dang I have to give the Trek reps a call and shame them for using inferior steel like used in the LHT!

Hint: Trek 520's are made in the same factory as the LHT

No I specifacally said Co-motion is well known for using quality tubing, A lot of companies use no name tubing in their cheap bicycles. Surly is one of many.
So if the 520 and LHT are identical bicycles. And the 520 cost a fair bit less.
Now that puts the LHT in the catagory of overpriced bicycles doesn't it.

Brad, thanks for trying to pull us back on track!

Daniel, Welcome to the forum.

You won't go wrong with a Co-Motion. However, IMO the Deschutes is a little high geared for the type of touring that I do.

Something you might want to consider that concerns fit. The picture of the Deschutes on Co-Mo's website shows the saddle higher than the bars. A lot of bike tourists like their bars a little higher, saddle even with the bars is a good place to start. Even though this is not a custom built bike, it might be possible for you to order the bikes with uncut steerer tubes.

Why would you want to do this? If you are built with long legs and and a short torso, like I am, by the time you get the right saddle height the bars may be too much lower than the saddle for a comfortable ride. When the steerer tube is pre-cut, the bars are as high as they are going to go.

The uncut steerer tube also allows more flexibility in getting a frame that will accommodate long legs and a short reach.

Example:
If I ride a 58 cm frame, it allows me to raise the seat to the proper height with about the right amount of seat post showing, and the saddle not too much higher than the bars. However, because of the longer top tube of the 58 cm frame, even with a shorter stem, I may be more stretched out than I prefer. And the bars may still be lower than I prefer. I could get a 56 cm frame with a shorter top tube and using an uncut steerer tube, raise raise my bars to a comfortable position. Once fit is dialed in, then cut the steerer tube. I have replaced the forks on three touring bikes that I use with forks having uncut steerer tubes; and have achieved good fit without going the custom frame route.

This may help clarify my somewhat confusing narrative.

This is on my bike, and the bar height is dialed in right where I want it. The longer steerer tube allowed me to use more spacers to increase the stack height, raising my bars. Some folks do not like the look of the larger stack height, but I'll take function over form any day. Compare this picture to the picture of the Deschutes. This bike fits like a glove.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...rer%20tube.jpg

Well the LHT is a better frame overall. We have both the 520 and LHT.

You don't happen to know who makes said quality tubing? The no name chromo CoMotion uses must be so much better than the no name chromo other brands use... but I still wonder about the actual differences between the Como no name and other no name. The chemical composition is the same as they're both 4130 so that's not it. Both are double butted. The LHT for example uses 8/5/8 and 9/6/9 buttings. Really you'll have to be the master metallurgist here and enlighten us ignorant folks of the ways of the steel

You have stated, multiple times, that non-branded 4130 is not good/high quality/used on good bikes. Its been a year+ of the same overall view restated many times.

You were wrong earlier when you claimed Reynolds doesnt make basic double butted chromoly tubing like that which is found on many current Taiwan made steel bikes.
And now you are arguing that comotion's unbranded 4130 isnt used in the same way as an lht (or the other steel frame bikes). First off, i dobt even know how it isnt used in the same way. Whats that mean since both companies use tubing to build bike frames?
But if younare saying comotion used better quality unbranded 4130 custom butted tubing, then here are a vouple thoughts. 1- prove it as thats just a baseless claim right now. 2- its still unbranded tubing and you have continually lambasted unbranded 4130 tubing. Theirs would qualify for that which you call inferior.

Get more specific in your expert criticism, if you are going to act knowledgable.


As for the dynamo, fair enough. They arent for everyone. I question the weight complaint when you ride a proverbial tank and some of the stuff you pack makes me question the reasoning, but hey, being consistent hasnt ever been part of your internet persona right?
Having foubts about the quality of bearings is just ignorant. Shimano dynamos use xt/ultegra level innards.

Read more post less.

SRAM's road 1x derailleurs have the "Exact Actuation" ratio and will work with big cassettes. However they are "X Horizon" style for 1x systems. Example:
https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...ear-derailleur

It also seems like (as we were discussing in another thread) that several of their 2x10-speed long cage RD's that are rated for 36t might also work up to 42t cogs, so they might be made to work in a 2x11 brifter setup, even though they aren't sold that way.

Hi cost doesent always meen Hi End! Its also what you get for your money! I thing If I bought the salsa Marrakesh for 1600$ that I would get more bike than you did with your more expencive bike... But thus that make your trek more Hi End?

http://revolutionbikeshop.com/2017-m...r-aca-edition/

Why do you say you think the LHT frame is better than the 520? I've only seen a 520 a time or 2 never got a good look at it. I thought the LHT handled poorly and was way to heavy. I'm seriously interested in your opinion of the 2.

The deschutes appears to be a work in progress. We only recently got the price. I seriously doubt the Co-motion is going to be no-name steel. Co-motion has to much of a reputation at stake. We'll probably get more info soon is my guess.
As far as the quality of steel is concerned, I'll trust the quality control of Reynolds and such companies way before I will trust the quality control of the no-name companies. A known company vs a no-name company is a no brainer in my book. Sometimes cheaper is good. Sometimes it's not worth the risk.

Nice to know the dynahub has good shimano guts. I'm still not interested though.

If you had really ridden the LHT you would not think it handled poorly. Or you had a bad component set with a too long / too short stem, the seat was too low etc etc. Also, a ride around the parking lot doesn't tell you anything, which you should know with the experience you supposedly have. If you look at the geometries of the LHT and Trek 920, the Trek is severely slower handling in every aspect from the LHT. The numbers do not lie. If that's what you like then so be it but to me the LHT is pretty good straight going bike with extremely good cornering capabilities. Wouldn't ride it in a crit though as it's too lumbering for that.

Anyways about the frames. The LHT fork is better than the 520 fork. The LHT has a brazed crown, has more eyelets (extra eyelets in the fork crown), is more forgiving and buzz absorbing. Also the LHT frame has more tour specific qualities such as the spoke holder in one chainstay, better seat post clamp. And one thing that really put me on the edge with the 520 was the fact that the rear disc brake mount was too close to the disc which translated to the disc brake bolts contacting the disc. I had to offset those with spacers to remove the issue. But it's not something you expect to see ever.

The LHT is slightly better frame wise from the 520. Not a lot, slightly.

Yet it seriously seems the deschutes is using generic chromoly. How 'bout that.

Also I bolded the relevant part. Just to be clear, you do realize that most bikes on the planet are mady by unbranded generic stuff? I mean the 920 is made of unbranded generic aluminum. All top end Trek's alloy bikes are made with unbranded aluminums and most other alloy bikes as well. It goes without saying the same is true with most steel bikes.
I think you may underestimate the frequency of chromoly steel used and manufactured in this world. It is one of the most commonly used steel alloys out there. It's used in every kind of high strength application from roll cages to screws.
Also it's worth mentioning that making butted chromoly tubes is in no way a big deal. Reynolds and companions have been making that stuff for decades so it's really not even a stretch to think that modern steel companies can do the exact same thing without a hitch.
And as a further fun fact. Reynolds isn't that remarkable. The stuff they've branded for bicycle use with big shiny numbers, cool stickers and awesome logos? It wasn't originally meant for bicycles at all. They use a know alloy and make tubes out of it, just like they did with 4130. And other companies do the same. Doesn't make the tubes any worse but Reynolds or other other know branded steel makers aren't the paragons of bicycle metallurgy you make them up to be.

Now how 'bout you post some facts about the higher incidence of failures in generic tubing compared to that made of Reynolds or shut it with the BS? You've ranted against the generic tubing so the burden of proof is on you.

First you fail to limit your claim that your external battery "functions much better" to the riding you do. (Obviously, there's a lot of kinds of riding you don't do!)




Then you resort to ad hominem attacks, usually an indication that you're losing the argument. Maybe you should complain to the person who's forcing you to read and respond to every post that disagrees with your position?


To the original point, the Deschutes is probably a good bike. It's pricey, though. If you'd be happy with one of the production touring bikes (Trek 520, Fuji Touring, Surly LHT, etc.), why bother? If, on the other hand, you'd spend an extra $1,000 or so upgrading parts, or if you need the custom fit, it's probably worth the extra money.

This isn't his first time. I am sure it won't be his last. Meanwhile, many of us are actually out there touring on our death trap frames and having a good time.

The co-motion deschutes looks like a nice bike. It is handmade steel in the USA and spec'd well. The price is about on point for a complete bike. Let us know if you get any input of people who have ridden one, but right now, I am impressed.

Referring to logical fallacies is the lowest form of argument. Aint no one want to hear that latin sh*t, you doo doo head.

(not an ad hominem, you being a doo doo head does not invalidate your argument, it is a separate point i'm making)

well, this simply means that the dechutes is just an overpriced piece of doodoo inferior steel
rustbucket similar to the lht!

but. but. but..... mo money = mo gooder. but is steel...head...implode......spooooockkkk!