For what it is worth I love my Co-Motion and everyone seems to dig it as well. If you don't like Co-Motion it's ok, if you do like them even better. They make a solid bike and they do a real swell job with paint and finish and got exactly what I wanted done. No it wasn't full custom but I didn't need that for this bike. I have seen some custom work they have done and it is always good. An older custom road bike they did came through my shop recently but sadly I can only remember the glittery purple paint job that still has me in a trance.

Sure there are tons of adventure bikes out there go take your pick. Co-Motion may not have hit the mark for some folks and that is fine and fair. No bike company is going to be 100% all the time on every bike. They have made wider tire bikes go with one of those or find someone else. It is not a super expensive bike considering you are getting a handbuilt US frame with decent components for $2500. It is hard to enter the handbuilt market and get something complete that cheap from someone with a good solid reputation who has been doing it for quite a while.

As you are someone who owns both a Co-Motion and a Surly Trucker, could you please give your impressions of how they compare to each other.

Read through the bikes specs. Looks like an extremely rock solid bike for the money overall at around $2500 USD. I would totally ride it if I was in the market for bike that was more oriented towards road and gravel riding. The only negative point I could find is the bike doesn't have a super low gear ratio. Totally fine if your lightly loaded or touring in flat areas but I wouldn't mind seeing a MTB 2x crankset for lower gearing in the hills. That's my 2 cents.

So if you are really winter touring I'ld like to hear about it. I'ld like to try it sometime. I've got the proper gear. Just the hypothermia concerns we have already argued about.

I'll agree with Sparky and Vegan, they have always made top notch stuff, no reason to think anything else of this project. Hope to hear what kind of steel will be used.

I've yet to hear about unsatisfied Co-Motion owners. I like how they helped pioneer Rohloff/Gates & now they make Pinion P.18 frames.

My post obviously confused you. Buh-bye.

interesting, I was initially sceptical about the gearing, but did a quick gearing chart look and the low is about 20 g.i. which is still not bad.

a triple crank will generally be a nicer choice because for touring, having only a 46 or a 30t choice of chainrings, front gears, is somewhat limiting and I would hazard to say that for probably a majority of the time, you would be in the 30t small ring up front.

that said, the 11 speed 11-40 cassette has reasonable jumps between it, and the gearing range of 20-113 gear inches would cover a lot of riding, loaded and unloaded, pretty well.

there are lots of times though that with a loaded touring bike, having lower gearing than 20 gear inches is very nice, and its only with doing touring in diff situations that someone will see if this is an issue for them or not.

Ive attached the gearing chart for others to see the results, its not that shabby all in all, but like I said, I'll take a perfectly fine working triple shifting bike and a tighter cassette. Having a larger mid ring and a smaller granny gear along with a tighter cassette just seems to me to be a no brainer, its a win win situation--lower low gears and just as high high gears, plus a comfortable mid ring that will be used for the majority of the time.

*I do realize this isn't the situation with this bike, so its a moot point. Bottom line, the gearing range of this bike is not bad and would work fine for most touring situations riding the bike as is, the gearing is very similar to the range of gearing that I used with numerous bikes in lots of enjoyable touring situations.

PS, one real issue with doubles like this, especially with a touring load, is that you will be crosschaining a lot, which generally is not good for chain like. Is this a real factor, I dont know as instinctively I don't like doing it and never have, but with a double like this, its going to be happening a lot, thats for sure, especially with any load on the bike.

I agree, very nice bike but at that price I would want (demand) a triple crank. I can't for the life of me understand this aversion to triple cranks on touring bikes, since when is a wider choice of gears a bad idea, why downgrade to a double? Makes no sense.

I'm hoping that Co-motion will work with Deuschetes customers as well as they have with past customers. Want a triple? They can deal with it. Lower priced bicycles, Trek 920 inc. is a take it or leave it deal. Change what you want, but what to do with the take off parts that I really don't want?
Personally I don't want a triple. The middle chainring is too fussy. A couple of LHT owners I met agree. But if it works for you, just fine. I dont need the large chainring. I don't use a 113 gear even on my road bicycle. I did the Katy with a top gear of 42/15 and did not use it. My 28/42 chainrings work well for me. I do like a tighter cassette. Probably changing to a lower MTB crankset and a tighter cassette would be easy enough on the Deschutes I expect Co-motion would work with you. I think this will be a good bicycle for folks.

A question to triple users. How often do you use the large chainring? What's your normal cadence?
Disclaimer!! My only experience with a triple was with downtube friction shifters a long time ago.

But it isnt as simple as 'add a triple'. The bike uses 105 5800 shifters and front derailleur. Adding a triple crank would mean changing the crankset, the shifters, and the front derailleur. Yes, all that can be changed, but it basically changes the bike as is. Then you get to the complete uselessness of the rear derailleur and cassette choices if you are going to use a triple crank.
So your 'they can deal with it' would mean changing the entire drivetrain. Sure, they could probably do it, but no it isnt as simple as slapping on a triple crank.


As for how often I use my large ring on my triple-
When riding with gear- 15% of the time.
When riding without gear- 30% of the time.

I think mstateglfr is correct that adding a triple is not easy. I asked Ethan at Comotion about this and he indicated the component package they purchased for this bike did not support a triple. It sounded like doing this would mean a mixing different brake shifters. I probably have this muddled somewhat but it didn't seem like a slam dunk.

The other part of this is that this bike is at a very low price point for Co-Motion. I was told that the only way they could get this to work for them was to make large component purchases. Given this they are adverse to customizing this bike. Unlike the rest of their bikes on the Deschutes they only offer rack options (can't even order a dynamo hub).

FWIW, I like triples too. I'd love to have a 25-35-45 front and 11 speed rear but I felt that the 2x11 configuration was adequate (better than the 3x6 I once toured with) and the 20.25" low gear is lower than most triples.

-Scott

Gearing is very personal. This bike spec appears more geared (pun intended) as a "one bike to do it all." Ranging from rides with friends on road or gravel, to weekend tours with the family. Does it specialize in any one thing, no. But it looks like it can do many things well.

Your right, I'm wrong!! I know all of that about triples. I just wasn't thinking.



I also talked to Co-motion this am. They said that the Deschutes uses a 4130 air hardened tube set from a company named Fairing (sp?). that includes the rear triangle. Their forks are not neccesarily the same tubing as the rest of the frame, that's about any of their frames. but they do use good 4130 for their forks and spend a lot of time on their forks to ensure quality control. They cut corners on components on the Deschutes to bring cost down. No custom work. They use larger diameter tubing also.
He also said many companies like Surly on the LHT, and others in that range, will not have 4130 rear triangles, head tubes. or forks. They will cut corners with high tensile steel, and still claim 4130 even though little on the frame really is. Also the fact that tube diameter is more important than tube thickness for frame strength and stiffness. A larger diameter tube of the same weight will be significantly stronger. We also discussed bar ends vs brake lever shifters. And finished with getting your busted frame welded by a local. Co-motion frames just don't break. Only 1 in over 15 years. When you get home with your fixed frame Co-motion will send you a new one. Probably few LHTs break either, but will Surly send you a new one.
So it looks like you get a lot for the extra spent on the Deschutes.
Thanks Ethan!
I still wish I had had the choice a year ago.
As mixed rider said, One bike to rule them all!! is the aim.

You're saying someone at Co-Motion is claiming that Surly is flat-out lying about their frame material?

That's pretty incendiary.

Does Surly say that the entire bicycle is 4130, or do they say the use 4130?
That could be read differently.

From the website:

Tubing100% Surly 4130 CroMoly steel. Main triangle double-butted. TIG-welded. ED Coated

I used a TanPan all year on my CX bike, 11-spd XTR der, 11-32 cassette. Worked perfect, no dropped chains, good shifting, lots of nasty mud...not dura ace quality of course, but worked really really well.

That's good to hear.

Apparently Wolfooth is revising the pulley to prevent the slippage some users have experienced.

They say the frame is 100% 4130.

Haven't you noticed? That's his M.O.

[QUOTE=Squeezebox;19241359

I still wish I had had the choice a year ago.
[/QUOTE]

You still have a choice. Sell your Trek 920 and get a Deschutes. With the 920's high resale value, the difference should not be too much. That way you can get rid of a bike with generic aluminum tubing that you are so obsessed about. You may sleep better:) FWIW -Trek's entry level road bike, the "1.1" selling for $769, uses 100 Series Alpha Aluminum, the same tubing as the 920. Both frames are probably made from recycled beer cans in Taiwan.

The brand of tubing my bike's frame is made from is the least of my concerns on a tour. The chances of destroying a wheel are very much higher than breaking a frame. I'd be more obsessive about getting the best wheels that I can afford, than worrying about the frame material, especially on reputable bikes.

So...there is a decent chance its Chinese produced 4130. Fairing Industrial Inc.

Well at least they claim they spend a lot of time to ensure quality control!
...i 100% believe them, for the record. I wouldnt doubt their QC is very high. My sarcastic response is more pointed at the hilarity that a retailer claiming they care is enough for you to forward it on as gospel, yet you dont take other companies at their word. Oddly inconsistent.

Surly specifically states 100% cromoly tubing with a double butted main triangle. So either your boy at Comotion is making stuff up, you are making stuff up, or Surly is lying about their product. With you being wrong so much in this thread alone, I know which option I would lean towards...

Sell your like new zombie killer and get this bike instead. After all, nobody has ever wished they spent less on a bike, right? And more expensive bikes are better, right?

+1 Count me as another very satisfied Co-Motion owner. Excellent build quality and finish, rides great loaded and unloaded. YMMV, and that's ok.

Trying to be the xpurt arguing the minutia of frame tubing (as if it matters to the average rider in any way) and then asking peoples opinion about triple cranksets because of lack of experience... you can't make this stuff up.
Congrats on the double working well on the Katy trail. Let us know when you try a hill sometime.

The Co motion looks alright in my books.. mainly because I see it mirrors my Marin so closely and that's a good bike so :giver:

I believe I said:
"Does it specialize in any one thing, no. But it looks like it can do many things well." The Deschutes is not one bike to rule them all.


If you exclusively tour fully loaded for months at a time or do group rides with Cat1 riders, this off-the-shelf bike is probably not your cup of tea. But if you are looking for one bike to commute to work, with some recreational group rides, and weekend excursions with the family, this looks like a great option.