Sounds good, I'll have to give them a try on my next build.

What's the difference between non, double, and triple butted spokes? Does butting make them lighter but weaker, or does it make them stronger, so the more butted the better?

Straight-gauge spokes have the same thickness everywhere.

Double-butted spokes use the same thickness at the two ends, but are thinner in the middle.

Triple-butted spokes use three different thicknesses, typically being thickest at the head, thinner at the threaded end, and thinnest in the middle.

Because spokes usually fail on the ends, butting does allow weight savings with minimal compromises to durability.

However, the main advantage of butting is only visible when considering the wheel as a whole.

What's especially critical in wheelbuilding isn't so much that each spoke is strong, but that they distribute load well. To distribute load well, the spokes need to be sufficiently sprung. The more elastic the spoke, the less raw tension you need to get it sufficiently sprung. Thinner spokes are more elastic; by butting the spoke, you can make it more elastic without sacrificing strength on the ends.

Suppose you have a really lightweight rim that can't handle high spoke tension.
If you try to build it strong by using ultra-thick straight-guage spokes, you have a problem. Because they're not very elastic, sufficiently tensioning them to distribute load could hurt the rim, and you'd have a weaker wheel. On the other hand, undertensioning the thick spokes to avoid ripping the rim apart would result in lots of fatigue, since loads wouldn't be well-distributed; you'd ironically end up with a wheel that's really prone to stuff like spoke failure.
If you try to build the wheel using ultra-narrow spokes, things sort of look better. The spokes can be brought to appropriate tension without overstressing the rim. However, the spokes simply aren't very strong, so the wheel still isn't quite as awesome as it could be.
Butted spokes allow you to get the best of both worlds. A butted spoke that's thick on the ends would be more resilient than the thin spokes, and would also be able to be brought to proper tension on the lightweight rim.

-Non butted spokes have the same wire diameter for the entire length of the spoke.
-Double butted have the same wire diameter at the ends with a smaller diameter wire in the middle.
-Triple butted spokes have the largest diameter wire at the hub end, smallest diameter wire in the middle, and yet another wire diameter for the nipple.

Butting, to my understanding, allows the spoke to better transition from supporting the weight of the bicycle to the tension it was built to when not supporting the bicycle due to elasticity of the butted spoke. The (usually) 1.8 mm diameter of the center section of a DB spoke is plenty strong for touring purposes and is quite common although an argument can be made that a 1.8 mm non butted spoke isn't quite as strong as a 2.0 mm non butted spoke.

HTH,

Brad

PS HTupolev and I must have been typing an answer at nearly the same time, his is more detailed!

[MENTION=406505]HTupolev[/MENTION], I have read that non eyeletted rims shouldn't use straight 2.0 mm spokes. No first hand experience with this combo.

Brad

OK, thanks!

I've used them on a number of wheel builds. They are slightly thinner at the head then the DT Alpines which is a good thing if you happen to be building a wheel around a White Industries T11 hub. I've found their spoke holes are a bit too tight for DT Alpines.

I bought mine from Bdop as well which seems to be the only place they can be found. Bdop is a very good company to work with as they ship the spokes lightning fast.

For shear value, however, you can find DT Alpines from Rose Bikes for € 0.45 per spoke (about $0.50 US). That's stupid cheap!

Proper rims with modern design have given us rims with lateral stiffness previously unavailable with old fashion high bead rims such as Mavic/Rynolite/Alex etc. We can thank the tubeless mountain bike rims for making them mainstream. Looking at the design of wheels that are require to withstand the most abuse, downhill, we can learn new concepts that replace the canard about double butted spokes and flexible rims offer the best service life.

Using a rim such as a 520gm Stans notubes Flow EX allows lighter yet stronger rims compared to classic touring rims such as Mavic 319/719 (600gm/540gm) they also allow us to make the move to tubeless as it becomes mainstream of road just as it has for mountain bikes and gravel grinding.

My Stans FlowEx, 32 spoke, 2.0mm straight gauge spokes are stiffer than my previous 36H/319 rims and offer wheels that will never break spokes, esp for road touring.

I've also had great experience with the new SunRingle TR Helix 25 and 27, lateral stiffness and tubeless ready for less than $60/each.

If you need a brake track the DT tubeless rims are great although a little more expensive for the higher weight versions such as the RR511.