My Bob Jackson tourer is limtted to 32mm. I can ride over almost any terrain but there have been plenty of times where I would have prefered wider tyres.

I have had the same experience with my 1982 Trek 720; it is limited to 32c and I would like to be able to run a bit fatter tire for rough roads.

Optimal tire width is going to be dependent on conditions. I'm fine with whatever depending on how heavy my load is. I've run 23c tires for some loooonng distances on roads that most people would only take mountain bikes on.

That said, the bike that I usually run for 'touring' has 26"x2" wheels.

Nice setup, even at a younger age I felt avg touring bike didn't give comfy enough ride nor allow wide enough tires. OTOH with dual suspension I'd try narrower higher-pressure tires for road riding.

The other thing with full suspension is maintenance. I'd probably run a fatbike if a cushy ride was my main priority...

On most tours I have two sets of tires. For the road my current picks are a Conti 4-Seasons 28f & 32r and for dirt Conti AT Ride or Speed Ride 40mm f&r. But those tires assume I am going to spend most of a given day either on sealed surface or dirt.

On a ride down the Pacific NW coast, switching from paved to dirt roads sometimes four or five times during the day the idea of switching tires out every hour or two was a non-starter. (A really fun ride by the way.) For that ride I had Schawlbe Duremes 35f and 40r. The Dureme was a heavy, deep treaded multi purpose tire. They worked well but were a compromise. My wife talked me into riding the Portland, Or Century Ride a few days before I started the above tour. It took me and hour longer than the previous years time for the exact same course using the Duremes. I’ve never mounted those tires again but given the right route they might be the right tires.

Here’s maybe an arcane observation. I’ve found that slick and semi slick road tires much wider than 32mm don’t track all that well on pavement and on dirt, even in the best of conditions, are pretty tentative. For someone with a 60+ lb load in four panniers this might not be an issue, but I try and keep it down to around 25 lb and love letting lose on long, winding downhill descents while having the rear wheel track the front on tight curves.

The answer depends on load and road surface. I can see a 150lb person with 20lbs of load being very happy on 32-40mm tires for dirt roads. 225lb person with same load might want more cushion for off road.

I came across this thread as I hesitate between 1.75 and 2.00" tires.

Evidence suggests that wider tires are a better option for touring, because (1) they reduce rolling resistance, and (2) they contribute to a more comfortable ride. So it'll be 2.00" (same as now).

(1) and (2) are in opposition - the reduced RR assumes identical pressure; whereas more comfort would be the result of a lower pressure allowing the tire to absorb road imperfections.

Schwalbe's post explains that competitive cyclists favor relatively narrow tires because they accelerate faster. Not an issue for tourers, but critical for competitors.

At the time this thread was started in Feb 2017, I had two touring bikes. On my heavy touring bike I used 55mm or 57mm wide tires. On the lighter bike I used either 40mm wide for predominantly pavement tours or 50mm wide tires for the trips with significant amount of gravel. Both of those bikes were 26 inch wheel bikes.

This thread actually started on Feb 7, 2017 which was the second day of my Florida tour where I was riding with 40mm wide tires, that tour was almost 100 percent pavement. I was quite happy with my tires for that trip, Schwalbe Marathon (with Greenguard).

One month after this thread started, I bought the frame for what became my light touring bike, a titanium frame for a 700c touring bike. I run 37mm wide tires on that, but that bike is pretty much used on tours where I expect mostly or all pavement and ability to resupply often.

I used my light touring bike on my last tour (a month ago), which had some rail trail and towpath gravel, but the 37mm wide tires worked fine on that soil when dry. When saturated with rain, the 37mm wide tires sank in a bit more and slowed me down more than a wider tire would have. That tour was roughly 90 percent pavement, 10 percent rail trail or towpath.

The 37mm or 40mm wide tires clearly give me a rougher ride than the 50mm to 57mm wide tires. And for that reason, I added a suspension seatpost and suspension stem to the light touring bike to soften the ride on 37mm tires before my most recent tour. I was quite happy with that upgrade. [I might start a thread later on my recent suspension upgrade?]

For your pick of 1.75 or 2.00 inch, you are right in the midrange of my personal preferences, based on road type. I like the ability to vary the width for different expected road surface types more than your range which I consider to be pretty narrow. But we pretty much are in agreement on width.

My last tour was on these Schwalbe Big Apple 50-305. No complaints.

The OP answered the question in the first sentence of the OP back in 2017. Ride what suits you and your tour.

My bike can take 40 with fenders, 45 without.

I use 32 or 35, either of which is more than adequate for crunching past any type of off road terrain.

I'm touring 99.8% on pavement, 0.2% off road. I'm not going to gimp myself with a heavier tire 99.8% of the time just to be more comfortable 0.2% of the time. That makes zero sense.

I swear that the Schwalbe article, like similar ones, has been a detriment to how people understand rolling resistance and tire width because they say 'at the same PSI' when nobody should pump larger tires up to the same PSI as narrower tires. Its this goofy qualifier that seems to be frequently misunderstood or just missed entirely. Heck, many modern rims actually cant handle high PSI and wide tires- that combination places too much stress on the rim...so Schwalbe's statement cant even be tried on many modern rims.
But even when Schwalbe acknowledges the wider tire isnt run at the same PSI they cite data that shows a 60mm Big Apple at 30psi rolls as well as a 'standard 37mm tire' at 60psi...and the rolling resistance of both is like 28 watts. 28 watts?!!

My tubeless 45mm gravel tires with small knobs, Continental TerraSpeed 45, have 14 watts of rolling resistance at 40psi. They are reliable and durable.
My tubed 37mm commute/tour slick tires, Vittoria Voyager Hyper, have 16.5 watts of rolling resistance at 68psi. They are reliable, durable, and long lasting.
The tubed Continental Contact Urban tire, in 39mm width, has 18.4 watts of rolling resistance at 60psi. These are well reviewed and are a tank of a touring tire that is not expensive.

^ None of the above tires are lightweight, fragile, or overly expensive. They all save 10-14 watts compared to the 'standard 37mm tire' that Schwalbe uses in the graph comparison.
To get down to the rolling resistance numbers of the tires I listed(that have PSI I actually use), the Big Apple would need to be pumped up to 72psi. Nobody rides a 2.4" tire at 72psi. Many modern rims arent even designed for that. So the whole claim of 'lower rolling resistance at same PSI', with regard to the example they provide, is quite worthless.



gauvins - my rant isnt directed at you, to be clear. You clearly cite the conflict between faster rolling and more comfort, and that wider tires would have less PSI. As for your situation, I would consider the specific tire as much as the width. Are the 1.75" and 2.00" tires the same model? If not, I would look at which has lower rolling resistance along with flat protection, tread pattern, durability, etc. Personally, I would likely opt for the 1.75". A tire that is nearly 45mm wide is plenty wide for me on any paved or unpaved roads.

mstateglfr no offense.

The problem is that the relationship between pressure and rolling resistance isn't explicit. I understand the basic argument (what matters is the contact area. At similar pressure they'll be the same, but less deflection for the wider tire means less rolling resistance). I'd be curious to read about the patch size as pressure drops, the impact on rr and comfort. Let's just say that their blog entry pushed me to keep 2" (marathon greenguard. My previous tires were Supreme and Almotion, no longer available in 26" in any width). I've considered the Plus and Plus tour, but the weight penalty, worse rr and higher price settled the case.

2" is useful in loose gravel/sand. I don't expect a major difference in acceleration. And they are in the mail

When travelling by bicycle, I'll choose at least 50mm tires and preferably 26'' wheels. They are really strong.

I've had good experience with Marathon Mondial 26x 2.00 tires.

And you don't care about the extra weight. Most importantly, they're strong, reliable. That's what you're looking for when carrying a lot of weight.

+1, and I have done higher percentages of unpaved surfaces during tours. It’s called HTFU.

The OP answered the question in the first sentence of the OP back in 2017. Ride what suits you and your tour.

""The problem is that the relationship between pressure and rolling resistance isn't explicit.""

I always thought touring is about enjoying the road and nature now I read (again) about problems: rolling resistance, speed, watts?

You would actually be more comfortable 100 % of the time. There would be a slight weight increase sure, but your rolling resistance might also go down overall.

It is a complicated topic but I've been starting to lean on using as wide tires as I can possibly fit with mudguards which are also supple + comfortable. I don't really feel the downsides are at all relevant in the context of touring but there are multiple upsides.

But just to make a few downside observations:
- Wider tires obviously weigh more. A 35mm Continental Terra Speed weighs around 400 grams whereas the 45mm model weighs 535 grams, so for 10mm increase in width there's a 135 gram difference per tire which equals 270 grams total for both tires. Not a big difference in the context of touring, especially when a 45mm is starting to be the max for mudguards.
- One would assume a wider tire is less aerodynamic but apparently it actually depends. CdA does have that element of Cd. But in a general sense wider tire are typically less aerodynamic than narrower tires. Also not all that relevant in the context of touring.

But as upsides:
- Wider tires are less prone to puncture as there's less overall surface pressure per area on the tire against the ground.
- In tubeless use sealing punctures is easier because the tire pressure is lower.
- Wider tires are more comfortable because, well again the pressures are lower. That however doesn't yet explain stuff because a wider tire at the same pressure is much harder than a narrower tire so a wider tire at a lower pressure can be as hard as a narrower tire. What's really happening is that the surface tension of a wider tire is the same as that of a narrower tire at a lower pressure. A fatbike tire is rock hard at 1bar but a 23mm tire can't be ridden at 1 bar.
However you can run the wider tire at the same surface tension and still get a more comfy ride. There's more compressible air in a wider tire and there's more space for the tire to deform / soak up bumps.
-Wider tires have lower rolling resistance. At least at the same surface tension. This doesn't show up on drum test data because a drum test doesn't account for suspension losses caused by the rider. All vibration that gets transmitted to the rider which then jiggles the rider around slows down the bike. Therefore in order to reduce rider induced suspension losses, one must reduce vibrations. This is something I suspect but don't know for certain but I think wider tires also have a higher tolerance for the break point of rolling resistance, ie. the point where raising tire pressure begins to increase rolling resistance. Or perhaps the break point rolling resistance increase isn't as massively rapid as it is with narrow road tires. If I ever do buy a power meter I'll start testing this stuff because it's just so dang interesting.

There is of course a limit at some point where a wider tire becomes slower due to width, but with the oncoming new data and professional racing tire widths getting wider and wider, I don't think we've found that point yet. And that point in question is dicated by road / trail surface and system weight. My fatbike tires aren't fast on road no matter what pressure they are. However my road tires are unrideable on techincal trails.

I can't speak for Yan, but I recall a few months ago on a different thread he said he had a Redshift suspension stem. He is getting some of his comfort from components other than cushy tires.

That's one way of doing it certainly. However using one doesn't necessarily exclude the other.
Just recently there came out a Dylan Johnson video where he discussed his bike setup for the Unbound Gravel race. He opted for both extremely wide tires for gravel riding (54mm if I recall correctly) and a Lauf suspension fork. I think his pressures were also quite low. While the context is racing, it doesn't actually take away from his findings. Cushier is almost always better as vibration also induces fatigue of its own aside from the fatigue caused by riding.

Yes that's all very good but are you touring on the Unbound Gravel race type of terrain? If you're doing an offroad tour, then by all means use a wide tire.

I'm touring in Bavaria now where the roads are great. Here a 40mm tire wouldn't be more comfortable than a 23mm tire. You can't get more comfortable if the pavement is already ice rink smooth. I'm using 35mm tires.

Another interesting read, from Rene Herse's blog. Key fragment might be :



EDIT

There's also this comparison of Marathon greenguard 32mm to 47mm. Rolling resistance is best at 37mm (1.5"). Albeit on fairly smooth surface, and differences are rather negligible. Interesting read as well.

Of course in Bavaria a 40mm tire would be more comfortable than a 23mm tire. It would be more comfortable in all Germany, even without weight on the bike. 20 years back we used 23mm on road bikes, even on road bikes people use 28-30mm these days.
But if one wants to feel every single little pothole in his body 23mm sure is fine.

..
I think the 50 or 57mm tires that I have toured on were slower than the 37mm on my light touring bike. But my wider tires have some flat protection and some tread that will give me some grip off road. Thus, my 50 or 57mm tires are not the super supple tires that Jan Heine promotes and sells.

That said, my 57mm Marathon Extremes have better rolling resistance than I expected on pavement. Photo below:



I think about 50 to 60 percent of tread remains, but it is getting worn. I was surprised how well these rolled on pavement, but they were quite noisy. While the sidewalls on that tire are pretty supple, the tread certainly is not. But, the 37mm tires I also use for touring were clearly faster than the 57mm tires.

The tour I did last month, I put a new 37mm Mondial on the rear just before the tour, as the tire I have been using near home was quite worn. Mondial tread, below.



While that 37mm tire rolled pretty well, it really is not supple at all. I am quite certain that the super supple tires that Jan Heine sells would be much faster.