Hello Touring forum. Long time/life time bike addict, first time poster. I'm always looking for something new from cycling or an excuse to get a new ride It looks like touring is next, so this will be the first of probably many posts.
First I would like to say that this board is one of the most helpful/inspirational of any type that I have come across, and I have already learned a good amount from reading over the past threads. Thanks
So my first question is this. I live in the middle of a large city in the middle of a large desert. Any door to door tours I take will require a good amount of time spent in the dry. This is fine by me, as I love the desert(in the cool months), but I would like to know if any of you have tips, tricks, advice, or special gear for touring in arid climes. I have plenty of experience backpacking, camping, and mountain biking in these conditions, but no experience touring of any type.
I hope to have a touring bike built up and ready to go by the end of the Hot, but right now I've got nothing to do but plan, build, and day dream.

In the desert I have only done day trips...so far...But it is amazing the difference the need to hydrate...For 60-70 mile rides, those who thought had plenty of water..They did not..have seen friends hitch hike, that would never hitch hike for such short rides...
I rarely use it..but, in the desert...From now on, I take my Blackburn Hydrapak.. Even at 90 in such dry places, you dehydrate at a much faster rate than you are accustomed to. and in our nearby deserts, there is nothing out there for those 60 miles..So better be prepared to go it alone.
Never on a regular ride, would you be so elated to see a convenience store..

The problem is when cycling it's easy to underestimate how much you should be drinking due to the cooling breeze generated by cycling. I would think that you should be drinking at least one litre per hour so the difficulty would be in providing yourself with sufficient water. Heat rash can also be a problem which can stop you cycling if bad enough, so forget shorts with nylon type inserts--you need either racing shorts or baggies but with no undershorts. Again if stopping then shield your tyres from the sun as blowouts may occur. Hope this is of some help. Good luck!

It's important to remember to keep drinking even after you get off the bike. Several years ago I was part of a group riding across the US and before we crossed the Mojave Desert we were constantly told by the organizers to drink, drink, drink. Every one made it through the desert without any trouble, but that night at dinner several people started to get sick and and ambulance was called. A couple of the riders were taken to a local hospital and put on intravenous fluids and were fine the next day. It turns out that once they got to the motel after crossing the desert they stopped drinking and the doctors said they should have kept drinking as much as possible even when they were in an airconditioned motel room.
The person I felt sorry for was the restaurant manager who had to try to convince his other customers that all the people getting sick and taken away by the ambulance weren't that way as a result of his food.

One year,we did a ride in Death Valley..In March...The bike organizers said...Even when you sleep..During those eight hours..You have dehydrated about one quart of water...Doing nothing..just sleeping.....because it is so dry...
Another desert ride, in nearby Boreggo Springs...that is like early spring usually...60 plus some miles...w/o my hydrapak, My bike only carries three water bottles... at a liter an hour, that is one water bottle short..
after watching one friend bonk due to dehydration...I bought a hydrapak...and it really wasn't all that hot..watch out for dehydration....it creeps up on you...think you are ok and 15 minutes later, you bonk..

I've never done this, but here's an idea: What about riding by night, and resting/sleeping under cover from 8-9 am until an hour or two before sunset? Lots of nocturnal wildlife, fewer heat/sunstroke/hydration issues, plus you'd catch every sunrise, sunset, and see some killer stars. If you planned your trip around the full moon, it could be amazing.
Of course you'd need to find rocks or other shade, or bring some kind of "sun fly" (as opposed to rain fly) for your tent. Sleeping when it's light out and hot would suck, and you'd have to have a good lighting system and lots of batteries (solar recharger, too?).
Anybody ever try this?

or a Schmidt dyno hub.

Add some electrolytes to that water. A bit of salt and potasium should do if you eat regular food for your meals(some people do the liquid diet thing).
Sweat contains a lot of salt and potassium (it's slightly less salty if one is accustomed to hot weather riding).

When the blood electolyte drops too low, the cells and he brain still contain electrolyte and start aborbing water from the blood in order to balance the electrolyte levels, this is due to something called osmosis. Because it is absorbing water the brain physicaly swells this is not a good thing, severe cases have killed athletes who drank plain water for a competition then chugged a bunch more plain water right after. Less severe cases have symptoms similar to dehydration.

Under less than racing conditions your body will continue to produce urine and balance the water to salt, unless one is dehydrated(the body considers dehydration worse than salt imbalance) in which case you get both problems. However, neither water or salts can be produced by the body and there is a limit to urine salt consentration (high and low) though it it is a fairly wide range, so both elements, water and electrolytes, must be consumed in a reasonable ratio over the coarse of the day.

I used salt and electrolyte interchangably here but electrolyte generally covers sodium, potasium, magnesium, calcium, and some very minor elements, chloride could be thrown in for this sweat dicussion to.
Table salt, rock salt, sea salt, etc. are all 99% sodium chloride. Sweat mainly contains sodium and chloride, but also has a good amount of potassium (can be met by high K food like bananas and oranges), and a small amount of the others (which all store in the body much better than salt, so standard good food is generally adaquate).

So, unless your racing or close to it, where you can't take in much real balanced food,(in which case I would recomend a fancy blend like "Endurolytes") I would recomend simply adding a teaspoon[5cc] of iodised salt per quart/liter of water and eating right.

Those water IV drips at the hospital always contain salt, hense the fancy term "saline solution". Often a touch of glucose as well, though very small.

Great advice. I wish we could get mineral water easily here in the US. Bottled water in Europe is available everywhere (convenience type stores) as just plain water, mineral water, or mineral water with "gas". I found the mineral water excellent for hydration on tour. Here (in the US) our bottled water options at convenience type stores are just spring waters (without minerals/electrolytes).

I usually buy gallon jugs of distilled or deionized water for a buck. The gallon jugs of "drinking water" are generally just local sterilized carbonfiltered tapwater. Same price I'd rather know what I'm drinking(and add my own salts), legal limits can be a bit forgiving of water supplies.

Usually, I am not a big bottled water fan.There have been bacterial outbreaks in the US from bottled water...I take my disinfection, thank you.....Knew a bottled water delivery guy once...Said his last quality control check was a part of his job...( To see in algae was growing in this non-disinfected bottle.)Plus, check out FDA standards...Bacterial content is not a part of FDA standards..too lax for me.
But, In Europe I like bottled mineral water with gas...I have ordered such at certain restaurants, so it exists in the US...Have to ask the restaurant owners where they get that.Do like the taste of mineralized water with gas..and as said replaces electrolytes..

just completed desert tour.

I just toured from San Diego to Phoenix to Alamogordo NM.

I had absolutely no problems in desert - took 2 water bottles and each morning grabbed a qt Gatorade to stick in side of pannier. If a chance came up - filling sta etc. I did refresh h20.

Biggest problems on ride
Saddle sores ( bought a tube of Buttr at a bike shop in phoenix) solved problem
Chapped lips - this was an ongoing problem
sun - didn't burn because I had a good base to start, but it really wipes you out

Funny happenings - saw lots of wet backs - tended to sneak up on them since they weren't expecting a bike. Also saw lots of border patrol

Tom

something else

Tires - I bought 2 Specialized Armadillo Kevlar tires for tour. They were fantastiv - now have about 1200 - 1300 miles on them with no flats. I will never use anything else again

Tom

Have lived and bicycled in the desert since 1978. "Warmest" I commuted in: 117 degrees with 2% humidity. Do-able? Yes. Fun? No!
In summer ride early A.M. and before mid-day; wear light colored non-nylon jerseys/clothing. Wear a cycling cap (good for shading eyes, keep noggin cool, use as emergency rag). Wet the hat before you leave; oh it will dry in 20 minutes, but makes for a cool start. Re-wet as necessary. Carry cold water. How? Freeze a couple bottles the night before, about 3/4 full then add water before you step out. Sunscreen? You bet!
Wet a bandana and wrap it around the neck; again it will dry but sure keeps the body temp down a couple notches. Re-wet as needed.
Once it is over 100 degrees do not overinflate tires: maybe drop pressure about 10% as road surface can be 140+ degrees.
Do take a break every so often . . . even if you have to stand in the shade of a telephone pole or saguaro!
Watch your potasium (bananas!) and salt (pretzels, chips) intake too. Avoid alcohol and caffinated drinks (diuretics).
Have toured from the Grand Canyon to Mexico on a tandem 4 times and once on my racing single in late September. Temps vary from hi-20s at Lake Mary to 100+ around Globe and Tucson.
Yes touring is do-able in the desert, with precautions and preparation.

Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Thanks for all the tips. Has anyone ever tried to use a Camelbak/Hydrapak type bag attatched to the rear rack and using a extra long hose to drink from? Is this even possible, or would I pass out trying to suck water from so far away and so low?

I know everyone mentioned it already but you really can't bring too much water. I biked last year from Albuquerque to a camping spot 20+ miles off the "main" road somewhat near San Yisidro, New Mexico. I was going to meet friends there and was using the trip as a tester trip for a longer tour that summer. I have never thought more about water in my life. I brought about 130oz (approximately six water bottles for a 75 mile trip). I had to conserve from about hour one on. If I were to do it again, I'd bring twice that amount of water-- 250oz a day. When you're out there, nothing else really matters. I carry these Nalgene collapsable water containers that fit about 100oz and put one in each front pannier. I refill the water bottles from them and it is a nice way of scheduling breaks-- forces me to get off the bike and walk around a minute.

Something nobody mentioned. Don't bring anything that's going to melt-- food stuff, candy bars. Learn from me!-- It's just a huge mess!

Chuckie

2 gallons a day sounds about right. I've heard others mention they use 2 gal a day in Moab for MTBing.(all day, not just on the bike)

2gal=7.3 liters, 256 ounces, 16.5 pounds, 7.3 kilograms

It is easy to see how high you can suck, just try it. Height is all that matters at that low flow rate. I think it is very do-able, I've seen under seat hydro units for sale. try just the bladder in a light homemade polyester(its UV blocking) case. (similer to a pillow case)
Try a platypus, they are great hydro bags and hoses, I like them much better than some other more catchy designs I've tried. (Like the large/widemouth screw on opening of the nalgen bladders, hard to fill with liquids and the seal sucks unless you get it just right)
I have a 3L big zip and a 2L hoser/platy-resevoir(same thing minus the hose) The "big zip takes a bit of muscle to pinch closed, but it doesn't slosh out while you try to close it(because the bag is upright, not on a slope) and it doesn't leak at all. I prefer to unzip it only for solids and cleaning, and normally just use the small hose/cap end for water fillup. The platy reservoir only has the small cap opening and quite frankly does a fine job. The hose can swap between all of the Platypus bladders/bags/bottles, that normally have plain caps, and the bite valve is super high flow. I have run out of water rather quickly because, at first, I didn't realize just how high flow the bite valve was.
Everything from 12ounce to 6 liter(210oz)

I know all that sounds like a plug but I like the product. Note DON'T CLEAN/STERILIZE WITH IODINE. I let mine soak with a basic iodine dish sterilizer(after foolishly leaving juice remains in it for days) and the plastic strongly attracted the iodine. It then slowly released into my water giving it a horrible taste for ages(finally found a cleaner to remove most of it).

i toured across southern utah last august, most days the tempeture was between 95 and 110. i carried 2 buke water bottles(20 ounces each i think) 80 ounce camel back. i bought one of the small 6 packer colapsable coolers and would have a quart of gatorade and 2 quarts of water in there with ice. i can't tell you how nice a cold drink can be so it was more than worth the wieght. i tried to make sure i took a drink about every ten minutes. i'd drink what was in the camelback, then refill it with the cold water in my cooler, and drink the gatorade when i stopped for breaks. only once came close to running out of water on a particually long slow day with no services.
i was on a pretty lightly traveled route but basically every day a few people in cars would slow down beside me and ask how i was and if i needed anything, so water never became an issue.
one thing i would do is make sure you know how far it is between services. i move pretty slow and would have liked to have found a store about every 30 miles or so, just to get a cold drink, and maybe find some shade to take a break in for a few minutes. it was a great trip but that would have made things nicer.
if you have any other questions feel free to PM me.
any ideas where you plan to tour? i love that part of the country and theres a lot of neat stuff to see.
my tour started in st. george, utah and went thru zion, bryce canyon, capitol reef, glen canyon(may have name wrong need to check my map. cap reef to glen was particularly rough, deceptive and long, only stretch i had trouble with. then headed to alb, new mexico. if i were to do it again i'd go a different route from cap reef to new mexico.
anyway have a great time and PM me if you have any questions or post here .

since you live in the desert you probably know this but worth mentioning anyway, apply sun screen often.

I know it's nice to have cold water to drink but it does tend to get lost in sweating. In the Middle East we tended to emulate the Arabs and drink hot tea at every opportunity as this was better retained by the body.

I second zonatandem's advice -- ride early am and late afternoon. I don't think there's any need to take the risk of riding in the dark. you can get in 7 hours of riding a day from 7-10am and 3-7pm. that break in the middle of the day could be spent sleeping, eating . . .whatever - just stay out of the sun. also, I have found that being covered up head to toe is much better (and cooler) than using sunscreen and having exposed skin.

I grew up in Phx and lived in Tucson for 8 years and have had a fair bit of desert cycling experience. I also did the death valley double century last year. that was weird - I woke up the day of the ride already nearly dehydrated cuz I didn't drink enough during the night. but death valley is quite different from phx or tucson.

Interesting that bikeforums has been existent for so long. It was interesting as this is the first time I researched desert riding and found this forum. Looks like it has long been dead, perhaps I can revive it. I am thinking of a tour from California to Utah and am thinking about the needs of the times any suggestions?

yeah.

camping out and cooking require water as well. I must be a water pig, but I consider a 4 liter MSR hydromerary bag to be standard cyclotouring equipment.

I also have close to a gallon of water bottle capacity on the bike.

if I were riding highway 50 across Nevada or some obscure N-S route thru the great basin, I'd be packing a 10 liter hydromary bag. you don't have to fill it all the way up, but 2 1/2 gallons of water is a very good amount to head to an evening desert campsite with IMO. you feel secure in the desert with water.

The way I see water needs while touring, besides drinks while riding there's

1) evening rehydration,
2)dinner cooking and washing water,
3)night tea or apres dinner bevs,
4)the morning boil, and
5) morning bottles.

For very hot riding conditions, like others have mentioned as well, riding early/late and avoiding the heat of the day is a sound strategy.

foregoing a leisurely morning camp lounge and hitting it at dawn gives a rider a few hours of more bearable conditions. then, a big breakie and a siesta. then more riding into the evening. pack a small light colored silnylon tarp ready for quick siesta deployments.

We pedaled a couple thousand miles through deserts with our kids on our last tour, and rarely had problems. As others have mentioned, be sure to take plenty of water, but you don't have to be fanatical about it unless you are crossing a long stretch where there is nothing - we did a 93-mile stretch with nothing, but some cars stopped and gave us water so we were fine. I ran out of water once and had to hightail it to the next place I could get some.

We found we didn't get many flats as long as we only rode on the roads. If we were getting off the road for any reason (we go back and camp in the desert each night, as well as eat lunch off the road) we walked our bikes. As soon as we got back on the road, we did a thorough check of our tires to pull out any thorns before we put our weight on the bike.

If it's really hot (think 95 degrees or more) then you'll have to take special precautions such as the salts and all that - but most of the time just be logical in your efforts.

Have fun!

Things that haven't been mentioned so far:

Clean your chain often. The sand wreaked havoc on my drivetrain (going through a sandstorm in Glamis and again somewhere in Az didn't help things)