My stove is a glorified tuna can, but about half the size. My pot is about a four-inch cylinder that holds the stove, windshield, lighter, liquid soap and scrubber when packed with room to spare. The fuel bottle is a tiny water bottle filled with alcohol. There just isn't much volume savings in leaving the stove behind and I do like a nice cup of hot tea or soup at the end of the day. Bringing it also means I can fit more food into a smaller volume, assuming I will have a water source.

I also have a limitation on prepared food/restaurants that is caused by my wife's Celiac's disease. We can't just walk into a restaurant and have a meal without some serious consequences that will likely put an end to our tour.

[QUOTE=mstateglfr;19466153
All that is physics.
.[/QUOTE]

And what does physics say about a gusting cross wind catching front panniers? I'm afraid physics cuts both ways in real world touring. I'm not arguing against front panniers at all but I am very skeptical of a blanket statement about their being more stable or "better."

Ive tried it both ways on the Plains states and front panniers are way more stable.
Aerodynamic********** Probably not.
Using back panniers only has benefits. You are able to navigate railroad tracks easier in each town.

Hey, if your stove and kitchen is that small, more power to you. I suspect many might not be though. Just something to consider.

I also get the diet concerns too. I'm a vegetarian and sometimes get caught out in restaurants.

Yep. My experience is identical to BobG's.

The concept is the same with a wet tent rolled and strapped on --> you don't want to leave it packed up for more than the day when wet.

I think it is part personal preference and part the bike's stiffness. I used to have a touring bike that handled like a wet noodle with much of a load in back. But my current touring bikes handle rather well with a rear load.

I find how you pack is personal preference.

My tent without poles is stuffed with my rolled up air mattress, a pair of sandals and a couple other things in my front right side pannier. Wet or dry, it gets stuffed there. And the other stuff in that pannier is all stuff that won't be any problem if it gets moist and stays that way for a day.

I used to roll up my tent and pack it rolled up in the tent bag, but for several years now I have just stuffed it into the pannier, the tent bag is left at home. The tent stakes which often are dirty are in a bag to keep other things cleaner, the stake bag is on top of the tent in the pannier. I only pack stuff in that pannier that can get moist.

Tent poles I usually strap a tent pole bag on top of the rear rack or in some cases it is strapped onto the side of a drybag that is on top of the rear rack. If I am packing heavy and use the 31 liter Ortlieb duffel on top of the panniers, the tent poles will fit in that.

I do not like to pack wet clothing in an Ortlieb or in a drybag, clothing (especially if recently worn) is much more prone to mildew. But the tent and other things that are much slower to mildew when packed together in one pannier are really not a problem if packed moist for a day.

But how you pack is personal preference. No two people do it the same way.

[MENTION=423088]gauvins[/MENTION], This is turning into an informative thread without any bickering, I hope it stays that way.

Last summer when I tested using my distance roadie for light loads (<20 lb.) the weight was solely on the front. While at first it was noticeable, becoming accustomed to it didn't take too long at all. I don't think that a low trail bike is essential for success when only front loading.

Brad

I agree with many here. Packing is evolved through trial, and trial (no error, here). I re-arranged my load each morning on tour last year. Less towards the end (3 weeks), as I had developed a preference towards the heavy stuff in the front, low. On the Prairies one day I did experience the cross winds hitting the front Panniers. But by then it was just another aspect of touring.

What I promote is go play, and experiment. I'm hoping to bag-up (first time this spring) and go for my Saturday ride today.

:ride:

-Snuts-

since years front load only. the advantage comes when you ride uphill, no back panniers waving "left-right-left-right" like a BIG ship on high sea, the bike with front load behaves nearly like a normal road bike when climbing and climbing out of the saddle. a "low trail" fork gives you easy steering .. downhill, uphill, off road, anywhere .. its great!

P.S. my tent poles fit easy diagonal in Ortlieb panniers 10 and 15L ;)

My tent poles also fit diagonally in my pack along with the tent. I tour with two non-waterproof packs. One holds the dry stuff in a plastic bag, the other holds the wet stuff (and food packed in ziplocks), which I stop and dry out if I get a sunny break. It's a simple solution that works for me.

I'm curious about one thing for front packs only. Can anyone here who's tried it ride no-handed? I can do that with my rear-only load. I wish I still had front packs to give it try, now that I've gotten my total load down to a two-pack volume.

I met a guy in a Montana campground tossing his front packs into a dumpster. The crosswind was killing him and the wind was forecast to keep up all week.

Good lord, read better and get off my jock.
I havent made any blanket statements about them being better. Ive done the exact opposite twice now and specified how i define 'better'. I have also stated that if 'better' means twitchier to a person, then rear loading may be best.
Its my observation that stable steering is more often preferred and front loads allow for this.

Seriously, 3rd time i have now defined 'better'.

I can ride no handed with 2 front panneirs and a dry bag on the rear rack. No idea how long i can as i havent tried for more than probably 20'.

My front bags are actually rear bags. I could just toss em on the back, move the dry bag to the front rack, and that would solve the wind issue...i suppose. At least it sounds like it would.
Your boy in montana had both front and rear, im guessing?...if he didnt even need the fronts (sounds that way since they were tossed) then cool. Otherwise whad he do with the stuff from those bags?

I apologize, you are correct. I think I over-reacted to the physics statement. It was just too much like when my EX-wife used to say "the Bible says..." which, of course, meant she was right and I was wrong, discussion over.

its a fact: with the right fork! front load is better ;())) :D

Of course, but...

Putting the tent poles in the pannier seems to just invite the poles to wear a hole in expensive panniers. And, as I said above, I don't put anything wet in waterproof panniers. If nothing else, hanging them on the tent and sleeping bag on the rear rack allows them to dry more quickly so that I don't have to hang them up and hope they dry during the night. In my experiences in the eastern US, that usually doesn't happen anyway because everything is covered with dew in the morning anyway.

That doesn't happen here in the west, by the way.


Again...and I not being critical here...I don't see the logic. The bag for the tent doesn't weigh much and, in all of the tents I've ever purchased, there is a bag for the poles, a bag for the stakes and the bag for the whole schemer. The length of the bag is set by the length of the poles in their folded state and I've never had poles that would easily fit in pannier except on an angle. That takes up a lot of room.

Additionally, many people here seem to be trading a purpose made bag for a heavier, bulkier compression bag.


And, again, not being critical, I don't see why you wouldn't just strap wrap the tent around the poles and stick the whole thing on the rear rack. It frees up space in the panniers or makes it so that you can carry smaller panniers which avoids some of the sail problem when using front bags.

It's not the "moist for a day" that I find problematic. Drying out the inside of an Ortlieb or similar bag is difficult at best. Keeping it wet for longer becomes much more problematic.

I have had campsites where I've waited for an hour or more before packing the tent for it to dry out. Following some rainy nights, I've even had to pack a tent very wet. At the end of the day when I unpack the tent, the tent is wet through and requires at least some drying before I set it up again. This is, again, more of a problem in the eastern US than here in the west.

To my way of thinking, putting a tent that wet into a pannier would add to the problem by requiring drying of the pannier as well. It just seems to me as making your life harder. Different strokes, I guess.

I decline to participate in what could turn into another one of those long winded arguments.

You are technically correct about weight, however, my compression sacks are sil-nylon, and are significantly smaller than the original tent bag. The additional weight penalty is less than an ounce, which I'll easily accept. The gain in volume reduction with a packed tent and rainfly is significant. The tent bag is 60% larger than the compression sack, and that is even before it is compressed. The compression sack is 8.4L and the tent bag is 21.3L. The trick is to stuff it, not roll or fold the tent.

My 45 degree sleeping bag compress down to the height of a water bottle. I also use compression sacks for my puff jacket. It works for me:)
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...c00f495370.jpg

What kind of tent are you carrying? A 21.3 L bag is on par with a very large sleeping bag stuff sack. I put my pad, sleeping bag (even the 20° bag), and pillow into a 15 L stuff sack. My tent bag volumes are 3.7 L for a single person tent (10cm x 48 cm, 4" x 19") and 4.5 L for the two person tent (11cm x 47cm, 4.5" x 18.5").

Assuming the same pole length, your bag would be 9" in diameter. I can see why you went the compression route, but I can't see why any tent for bicycle touring would be need to be 9" packed diameter. And the poles don't stuff at all.

a compressed tent? is that really good? don't know.....



https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1656/2...d73305ac_o.jpg

Seems to me that small front Ortleibs, a frame bag and a bikepacking seat pack may be the direction I take.

The way mine is sized, I can carry the poles in their bag either strapped under the top tube or the downtube, and stuff the tent body in a stuff sack in a pannier or on the back rack much more compactly. The bag containing it all is too bulky to strap to either of those places, and hangs a ways off the back of the rack. I'm left with either strapping it to the rack and letting it hang off (and not leaving much room to strap much else solid on the top), or separating the tent and the poles and stashing separately.

I understand your logic though, like I said my older tent came with a much "better" sized bag, that I wouldn't consider any of that, and would just strap down and be done with. Just a difference in how the tents were packed from the factory.

Although, I had never considered this manner of carrying, I may have to give that a try! Thanks for sharing!

You may like it, or you may not.
I have done this (Apidura seatbag & half-frame bag plus the front Ortliebs), and discovered that the lack of easy access to items I carry was very detrimental. Even adding or removing a clothing layer was cumbersome.
This is why I evolved to deploy the kit I described in post #23 in this thread.

The framebag/seatbag combo works nicely on my distance bike for short stints (overnighters or exended weekend trips with 2 overnights), assisted by a largish Acorn bag onto a front mini-rack. These short trips are mostly focused on the riding aspect when I don't pay much attention to conveniences, comforts and some such. During those I carry no spare clothing, and only a minimalist kitchen and bedding. Hence, I don't miss the inability for easy access to my "stuff".

only try if you have a proper bag to protect the tent. after only 80km like this the tent bag had two holes in it, from rubbing against the rack. tent did not get damaged ..

"""that the lack of easy access to items I carry was very detrimental"""

what do you need while you ride? all i need when i ride is on the handle bar bag, rain jacket, arm warmers, puff jacket, phone, battery charger, food .....

You know, maybe it's the way I tour, or maybe I'm just contrary, but I just don't understand this push to have the smallest possible bags while touring. I understand keeping gear weight and packed size down, sure, but I still like to have weight spread out on the bike, and I still like to have extra space. I never know when I'll stop to pick up odd size things like a bunch of fruit from a farm stand, or a whole box of donuts, or a whole pizza... :) It's nice to have a spot where that stuff fits, without having to tie strangely shaped bundles onto odd spaces on the bike. Also, I'm often traveling in places where I need several days of food or quite a bit of extra water, and it's nice to not have to MacGuyver a way to carry stuff when it's needed.

Then, being ultralight isn't much of a priority for me, so there's that too.

OK, well thanks for that followup as well, I will scratch that off my list of things to try :)

If you're worried about getting all your gear into two, front panniers, I think compression will be very helpful. For my part, getting gear into a limited amount of space is more important than matching some unspecified weight goal. I know there are people who will go lighter, but my feeling is that unless you're filling them with sand, 25 liters worth of camping gear will be a reasonable weight.

For my part, I used to compress my tent (a hammock) and my insulation all into one compression sack which then went into one, waterproof pannier. Because my hammock goes underneath a separate tarp, it is never more than damp. The tarp would not go into the pannier. That way it could be put up before I even opened the tent pannier, keeping everything dry. Eventually I got a little more lightweight gear, and found I could essentially just feed the hammock, with quilts, into the pannier and close it up without a compression sack. Now I cram the hammock and a couple of bedding items into a handlebar roll, and anything extra, like quilts that didn't fit, go into a compression sack in the fork. The tarp, as always, sits somewhere outside, so I can put it up before getting out the hammock tent.

If you have an otherwise empty rear rack, then I could see where just throwing the whole tent there could be helpful, but if you don't, I can also see why you might want to stuff it in a pannier and tie the poles up somewhere out of the way, like along the top tube.

well, it makes a BIG difference touring 2 weeks with a setup like this:
http://www.bikeforums.net/19463711-post3967.html

or two 15L bags where all you need fits. including tent, sleeping bag, clothing and cooking stuff, in my case 8-9kg.
of course touring we have time and there is no hurry, still I want to ride a bike, not a 20tons truck.

It is only my perception, but I feel my front panniers add a lot of forward resistance in cross winds. My front panniers increase the headwind effect of a quartering crosswind.