Seems to me that small front Ortleibs, a frame bag and a bikepacking seat pack may be the direction I take.

The way mine is sized, I can carry the poles in their bag either strapped under the top tube or the downtube, and stuff the tent body in a stuff sack in a pannier or on the back rack much more compactly. The bag containing it all is too bulky to strap to either of those places, and hangs a ways off the back of the rack. I'm left with either strapping it to the rack and letting it hang off (and not leaving much room to strap much else solid on the top), or separating the tent and the poles and stashing separately.

I understand your logic though, like I said my older tent came with a much "better" sized bag, that I wouldn't consider any of that, and would just strap down and be done with. Just a difference in how the tents were packed from the factory.

Although, I had never considered this manner of carrying, I may have to give that a try! Thanks for sharing!

You may like it, or you may not.
I have done this (Apidura seatbag & half-frame bag plus the front Ortliebs), and discovered that the lack of easy access to items I carry was very detrimental. Even adding or removing a clothing layer was cumbersome.
This is why I evolved to deploy the kit I described in post #23 in this thread.

The framebag/seatbag combo works nicely on my distance bike for short stints (overnighters or exended weekend trips with 2 overnights), assisted by a largish Acorn bag onto a front mini-rack. These short trips are mostly focused on the riding aspect when I don't pay much attention to conveniences, comforts and some such. During those I carry no spare clothing, and only a minimalist kitchen and bedding. Hence, I don't miss the inability for easy access to my "stuff".

only try if you have a proper bag to protect the tent. after only 80km like this the tent bag had two holes in it, from rubbing against the rack. tent did not get damaged ..

"""that the lack of easy access to items I carry was very detrimental"""

what do you need while you ride? all i need when i ride is on the handle bar bag, rain jacket, arm warmers, puff jacket, phone, battery charger, food .....

You know, maybe it's the way I tour, or maybe I'm just contrary, but I just don't understand this push to have the smallest possible bags while touring. I understand keeping gear weight and packed size down, sure, but I still like to have weight spread out on the bike, and I still like to have extra space. I never know when I'll stop to pick up odd size things like a bunch of fruit from a farm stand, or a whole box of donuts, or a whole pizza... :) It's nice to have a spot where that stuff fits, without having to tie strangely shaped bundles onto odd spaces on the bike. Also, I'm often traveling in places where I need several days of food or quite a bit of extra water, and it's nice to not have to MacGuyver a way to carry stuff when it's needed.

Then, being ultralight isn't much of a priority for me, so there's that too.

OK, well thanks for that followup as well, I will scratch that off my list of things to try :)

If you're worried about getting all your gear into two, front panniers, I think compression will be very helpful. For my part, getting gear into a limited amount of space is more important than matching some unspecified weight goal. I know there are people who will go lighter, but my feeling is that unless you're filling them with sand, 25 liters worth of camping gear will be a reasonable weight.

For my part, I used to compress my tent (a hammock) and my insulation all into one compression sack which then went into one, waterproof pannier. Because my hammock goes underneath a separate tarp, it is never more than damp. The tarp would not go into the pannier. That way it could be put up before I even opened the tent pannier, keeping everything dry. Eventually I got a little more lightweight gear, and found I could essentially just feed the hammock, with quilts, into the pannier and close it up without a compression sack. Now I cram the hammock and a couple of bedding items into a handlebar roll, and anything extra, like quilts that didn't fit, go into a compression sack in the fork. The tarp, as always, sits somewhere outside, so I can put it up before getting out the hammock tent.

If you have an otherwise empty rear rack, then I could see where just throwing the whole tent there could be helpful, but if you don't, I can also see why you might want to stuff it in a pannier and tie the poles up somewhere out of the way, like along the top tube.

well, it makes a BIG difference touring 2 weeks with a setup like this:
http://www.bikeforums.net/19463711-post3967.html

or two 15L bags where all you need fits. including tent, sleeping bag, clothing and cooking stuff, in my case 8-9kg.
of course touring we have time and there is no hurry, still I want to ride a bike, not a 20tons truck.

It is only my perception, but I feel my front panniers add a lot of forward resistance in cross winds. My front panniers increase the headwind effect of a quartering crosswind.

I tend to agree with you. If I can get the bike loaded up with a front and rear rack, and keep the rack platform free for whatever odds and ends come my way, I'm happy. But I also found that I like not having a front rack when the bike is unloaded, so eliminating it and carrying gear on the handlbars and forks has been nice. And I've found that my S & S bike is kind of a tight fit in its bag. It'd be nice to not have to worry about a rear rack in that situation. So my next trip may involve a straight bike-packing set up just because it's easier to fly with that stuff and avoid oversize/overweight charges. If not for that, I would never take the rear rack off of my bike. It's too useful.

A 2-person Sierra designs, Lightning 2 (older model double wall). The tent is about 3.5 lbs.; while not an UL tent it is compact and light enough. IMO the bags tents come in from the manufacturer are more suitable for storage than when in actual use. Shipping bag's sizes are variable, and depend on the manufacturer; bag size has very little to do with actual tent size.

I've been using compression sacks to pack my tents for backpacking , climbing, and cycling for at least 30 years, with no apparent ill effects. They are stored in a large breathable sack for storage at home.

My short trail Bike Friday , handles better with a front load..

To those worried about carrying their tent poles, don't forget you can order tent poles for any tent that are broken into smaller segments that fit in smaller places. Just a thought when thinking about reducing the number of panniers and dry rack bags you carry.

I hated the way my Surly LHT handled with front and rear panniers. Steering was unpleasant for me. I took off the front rack and bags and now tour with just the rear panniers and a very light dry bag on the rack in back. I know I'm overloaded in the back, but I have not felt that the handling is compromised in any way. Getting that weight off the front of the bike has mde riding a joy again.
I do keep a medium/large handlebar bag for big camera and sundries.

The handlebar bag I use on the touring bike (Ortlieb Ultimate 6) is too small for anything besides valuables, electronics, maps, and snacks.
This way it's easy to take it with me when I'm off the bike sight-seeing.
Rain gear, arm/leg warmers, warmer clothing all has to be stored elsewhere. The Carradice Nelson fit this purpose nicely, and is easy to deal with for food purchases for dinner on the way to camp.

What you describe as being carried in your front bag all fits in the Acorn front bag on my distance bike, but that's a different, lighter, and much faster vehicle with a mini-front rack to support the bag. The bag never gets removed from this bike as I use it for multi-day (and shorter) riding and never for real touring with sight-seeing stops.

I can't ever remember carrying my tent poles in the same bag as my tent, ether backpacking, climbing, or cycle touring. Heck, I don't even do it car camping.

My poles either go inside my rack pack or under the bungee cords on the outside. It sort of depends how I feel that day:)
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...IMG_1974-2.jpg

This is my tent and rainfly compressed to a height not much bigger than my 20 oz. (0.6L) water bottle. The volume of the compressed bag is a little more than half the volume of the 8.4L bag when it is empty and not compressed.
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...aterbottle.jpg

I did the exact opposite. I found the uphills with the LHT back-loaded were a pain. Front wheel always wanted to lift up. Moving the weight to the front fixed that. It does change the handling, though, for sure. I remember taking a break during a trip and riding for a few miles without my gear on my bike. Suddenly the steering felt squirrely as anything. Took a few miles before I got used to it, and it started to feel normal again.

I have tried to stuff everything into two front bags which is possible but it means I have to stay way too organized to get everything to fit in and it is much too tight. I would rather simply distribute everything loosely over four bags. Plus, I think the weight distribution is better that way. Regarding the tent debate, I use the cylindrical tent bag and strap it to the top of the rear rack. In case of rain, I have a cover to keep the tent dry. Really, it just boils down to "different strokes for different folks."

I suspect if I tried to climb steep hills I would experience the lifting but I'm getting to old to climb any hills. I too love taking the load off the bike after a long days ride and enjoying the bike unladen. Makes me want to take a credit card tour on an 18 lb road bike, and do some 100 mile days

I won't say that front only is flat out better, but I have found it very satisfactory. A couple points:

1. Gusting wind... I rode the Pacific coast with front only and didn't notice that side wind was any more of an issue than with rear panniers. Maybe it depends on the distribution of area relative to the axis if the head tube and a different setup might be different. It is a different feel, but it wasn't like I was getting blown around more.
2. Sluggish steering... I don't find that I typically steer a bike so much by turning the bars as by leaning. The turning of the bars is secondary after the turn is initiated. If going very slowly that becomes less true, but not until going quite slowly. The result is that steering is just fine. The bike does feel different, but I actually find that the "wag the dog" feel of rear panniers that cyccommute mentioned might be worse.

I'm not sure what tents you guys are using but I've owned several different tents from several different manufacturers and never had one that the bag was way oversized compared to the tent. In most cases, the stuff sack for the tent is almost too small, requiring careful rolling of the tent to ensure that it will fit in the bag.

I will say that I'm careful about choosing a tent with the shortest poles I can get away with. One of the reasons I've never owned a dome tent is that the poles were always longer (21" packed size) than A-framed tents (18" to 19" packed size. The tents I've owned have always sat on the rear deck perpendicular to the rack and about the same width as the panniers or even slightly narrower.

I have looked at putting the tent on the rack longitudinally but never like how it carried. I couldn't imagine trying to carry it under the top tube nor the down tube. Both of those places are already taken with a water bottle and a pump.

Where can you order them? I've never heard of that option.

Google "custom tent poles"
Many suppliers:https://www.google.com/search?q=cust...m+tent+poles&*