nfmisso

knee surgery is not fun... (both of mine have been replaced).

manapua_man

You could say that about literally anything.

BigAura

I enjoy going fast, at times too, because it feels good. BUT would never push myself to the knee-pain-point just maintain a higher average-speed. Taking an extra hour or two, to enjoy the ride is preferable. Once again my point: touring is not a race and being fast is of little importance.

djb

I'll add this comment about overdoing it, I recently did a reasonably long trip, on a relatively heavy bike in fairly hilly terrain and by being careful with shifting and being reasonable with daily distances, my knees were generally ok.
Back home I've been mostly commuting again, and I find it almost funny that due to the fact that I often only ride for 30 mins at a time, but hammer it at times, my one knee is complaining a bit now.

We have to listen to our bodies, pure and simple.

J.Higgins 

Same here. I prefer getting in my own "zone" inside my head. Its kind of a place of zen and it makes the miles roll by. I'll get into a certain speed and cadence and before long I'm in the ice cave sliding with the penguin until Marla shows up.

djb

I feel that there is a movie I have not seen, because you lost me with that one.

BigAura

djb

There you go, never saw it. Thanks

u235

This exactly. I can roll easily at 15 mph for miles on end on relative level path (except for my knees obviously) and that appears to be where I naturally end up and enjoy riding. I don't feel like I am "racing" or pushing anything, it is comfortable mentally and physically. Every time I force myself to slow down, I ended up right back at 15 over and over. I listen to my body but my knees don't say anything until it's too late which throws off my judgment. What does slow me down now are things that provide immediate feedback like overall lack of energy, legs burning, high HR (I seem comfortable maintaining 130-140) but unless there is a hill or I didn't eat right, those usually don't happen. I'll have to learn and get used to a sustainable touring mode and I now know me knees ARE my limit. On this last trip I tried hanging far enough behind people without being obvious I was pacing with them but eventually zoned out and got too close and it was awkward.

djb

how old are you submarine feller?

djb

Nigel, you look like you are in your 30s, that's pretty rough having had both of them done at your age, no matter your age (well, you don't look 70 in any case)

u235

46

djb

I thought you were younger. Well all the best with the knees, its a drag when you have an issue that stays with you for a while.

Tourist in MSN

You should know from past riding what you can and can not do in a day. Or how fast. I suspect maybe overstress for a brief period of time. I have knee problems (I am 63, most people my age do) but I no longer stand on the pedals to accelerate from a stop or to power up a hill, I stay seated and gear down instead. That does wonders for my knees.

There is an old theory that pain in front of knee means saddle too low, pain in back of knee and the saddle is too high. I move my saddle about 5 to 8 mm at a time, but adjust frequently when trying to set up a new bike or new seat or something like that. Once I have the height figured out I put a piece of electrical tape on the seatpost about 5 mm above the frame, then if my seatpost is sliding in the frame that 5 mm gap disappears and from a quick glance I know it slipped.

Gearing down for less pressure is teh answer once the pain hits. YOu say you slowed down but that does not tell me if you slowed your cadence while keeping the pressure on the knee or if you geared down and reduced pressure on the knee.

I just got home from a five day trip, first day I tried to keep up with a guy that I know is faster than me. Left knee was hurting at the end of the day. Put a small knee band on my knee at the start of the next day and went slower with less pressure on the knee, by the end of the 2nd day my knee was fine and I stayed at that slower pace on days 3 thru 5. By knee band, I mean a patella (or patellar) support strap, google it for more info. I also carry a better bigger knee brace with me in case I do something stupid. I never sleep with a knee brace or band, that does not seem to help, only use it while up and about.

u235

Oddly against conventional wisdom what felt slightly better to me after the pain started was to gear up and slow my cadence but I ended up doing both as time went on. I did move my seat up and back a bit after the second day and I'll continue to tweak that. I have a MTB clipless setup (Shimano M200 hard sole) I can try again although I absolutely hate being clipped. I've been a diehard flats/platform guy for decades. I am slightly bow legged and my ankle tends to roll. I tried pedal extenders a few years ago because I was rubbing my cranks at times with my heel but those were useless and didn't feel right and I corrected most of that myself.

For the time being with my schedule... I'll only be doing these 200-300 mile 3-4 day gravel tours a few times a year. With not doing them a lot it will be hard to quantify and test tweaks of what works and what doesn't. Right now, the obvious answer is SLOW DOWN and enjoy it!!! I'll still be doing my average 100 or so miles a week 30 miles at a time without pain (hopefully). I hope eventually to do more extensive touring because i really do enjoy it. If I can only get the wife on board

nfmisso

Actually, just shy of 60.

I had a GREAT surgeon, and a GREAT anesthesiologist; resulting in far less pain than most and a much faster recovery.

Carbonfiberboy 

People ride 1200k in 90 hours and less all the time without knee pain. It's not quantity, it's doing it wrong. If you do it right, you ride across the US in 30 days - or 9. In my mid-60's I rode 400k in 15 hours, and I'm not a talented rider, just efficient.

I had an episode of knee pain when I was just picking riding back up at 50. As soon as I figured out how to do it right, it went away and never returned.

Tourist in MSN

Perhaps you have an unusual pedaling style that tweaks your knee. A friend of mine that I tour with often rides with his knees out pretty wide and I have often suspected that is why he has endurance problems. In some of my photos of him I can see that his knees are out wider than his hands on his handlebars, his handlebars are the right width for his shoulders.

Any chance that you could get someone to ride behind you with a camera to make a video of your pedaling style so you can see if you are pedaling the way you should?

fietsbob

I plot along at maybe a 7~10 MPH average, just staying on top of the gear ratio.. most of the time..

(Sailor in Rickover's Navy 66~69) U-235 is not the Boat, but the fuel-rods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-235

djb

thats still tough though, glad it went well and I assume your quality of life was vastly improved. My father had a hip replacement and it helped immensely.

u235

I was a nuke on an old Boomer. I was at the other end of it's life and did the decom.

A video sounds like a great idea. I have one now from a chain stay mount that shows my ankle roll but not my knees.

fietsbob

I got orders to the Ethan Allen, in the Newport News shipyard, Getting a refuel, more U-235, & overhaul.
so 'middle' of it's service life.

SSB(N)608

u235

SSBN 634 Stonewall Jackson. I believe the 608 was still tied to the pier waiting to be cut up in Bremerton when I was there in the mid 90's.

djb

I always thought you two had a mouldy smell ;-)

and fiets, I've always plodded along at almost exactly the same pace, 25 years ago or now.

fietsbob

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jo...Kennedy_(CV-67) was not commisioned, yet, Also in the same shipyard, then.
It has been decommissioned and scrapped since then..

Makes you feel old.