ChipSeals

My mistake. I thought that Surly had done the setup of the bars. It was my LBS. I tried to get the saddle and crank exchanged but was unable. I’ll be changing several components and I’ll probably wind up paying about as much as if I had gone fully a la carte.

I learned this weekend that the stem clamp diameter is 26mm and the disc brakes are mountain, not road. Meaning that several of the road components I already had are incompatible. Not everyone who buys Surlys spends their weekends switching between drop bars and flat bars for the fun of it.

I ride the bike and enjoy it as is, but I really question Surly’s component choices and wish I’d done more research before buying the complete bike. I’d advise others to do so.

3speed

I forget exactly what the frame and fork are, but the frame is a Schwinn that was originally a hybrid with a garbage heavy, steel fork. I'm not saying steel forks are garbage and heavy, but that particular one was terrible, cheap, and heavy. Also ironic because I dislike Schwinn, but really like this bike. Giant made an identical bike with a different fork, though, so I'm guessing they just contracted/bought a bunch of frames from them. The fork is a high end cyclocross fork that I swapped out. Components are Ultegra RD, Dura-Ace FD, SLX cranks, Tektro 720 brakes, Cane Creek levers, hand built wheels with Dyad rims and XT rear hub and dynohub. Between touring and commuting, I've done thousands of miles on it and it's been a comfortable, solid bike.

elcruxio

Yeah it's a shame they don't make proper comfortable V-brake drop bar levers. Converting to road costs money but as a bonus you can then use brifters.

Theoretically you can use travel agents to convert from mountain pull to road pull but having gone that road earlier I sincerely do not recommend it.

robow

Don't fault Surly for the crank size, many if not most bike manufacturers in the industry select a 175 crank arm for a size 56 frame. It is generally the changing point from a 170 and 54cm frame. I ride a 56cm and a 175 crank and it's sometimes a hit or miss on road bikes as to this combination. Mountain bikes will almost always use a 175 in a similar size frame.

ChipSeals

I would debate that it's "many if not most." I almost purchased a new Specialized Sequoia in this frame size, and it came with a 172.5mm crank. (Same with their Roubaix.) Also looked at the Salsa Vaya in this size — 170mm, it was, I believe. The CAAD12 I used to ride in 56cm was 172.5.

I once had a custom fit done, and the heat plot of crank lengths my fitter showed me of his data had mostly 172.5 and 170 for folks my height (182cm.)

Plus.... what percentage of people riding a tour bike, who would be comfortable on 175mm cranks, would fit comfortably on a 135mm wide saddle?

I like Surly overall, but they really phoned it in on the component choices for this one.

robow

I doubt there is any direct relationship between the length of one's legs and the width of their butt or surely not what width or shape of saddle that one might desire. As of others have stated, saddles are so personal you can't hit everyone. Btw, you do realize that 2.5 mm difference in cranks that you are concerned about is the thickness of some socks.

3speed

That means the difference in 170 and 175 is only the thickness of a couple of socks. Still not much, but it seems to make a definite difference. Not saying what bike should have what length, but it does seem to make a difference.

robow

Most all Shimano cranks are available between 165 and 175 mm in length, a difference of 1 cm. Yet this range is "designed?" to accommodate humans from less than 5 ft tall to those 6.5 ft tall or a 46 cm difference, in other words, yea, there's a difference but don't lose sleep because you feel it's 2.5 mm off. You'll likely get used to it and IMO there are more important things to obsess about such as the best recipe for homemade chain lube.

ChipSeals

I can get used to the existing components. But I like smart design from the get-go.

If you're using a 175mm crank, I'd guess that you're probably at least 5'10" tall. A 135mm saddle... my girlfriend is a petite 5'2" and she can hardly fit on a 135mm wide saddle.

More importantly, I'd guess that it's at least a slim majority of LHT / DT owners who set up their saddles level to their handlebars. That necessitates a wider saddle, unless you only do rides shorter than 10 or 15 miles, when it wouldn't matter.

To me, Surly is essentially saying throw the stock saddle into the landfill. That's very wasteful. (My LBS called them and asked for a swap but they said that was not possible.)

Moving from a 175 to 170mm crank was instrumental in fixing knee issues that I had. I think many of us would notice a 5-10mm change in saddle height. It's not a small difference at all.

PedalingWalrus

It does for me. At least the ride feels "different" and distinctive depending on what frame material is used. Some might prefer material 'A' while others material 'B'. I have bikes in Titanium, Steel or Carbon and use them regularly.

DanBell

This seems like a thing that did not happen.

ChipSeals

Should I have reason to doubt them? Serious question. They are a reputable dealer in New York with several locations. Have you personally ever had your LBS successfully swap parts on a Surly build?

DanBell

If they have been a Surly dealer for more than five minutes they would know that there's no parts swap going on for QBP brand bikes. They're not going to call anyone and ask, because first of all, who do they call? Not Surly, that's for sure. And second of all, that's not the business model for those bikes.

So either they were a brand new dealer of QBP brands with no clue how the business operates and they did call someone to ask, or they just told you they called someone to make you feel like they made an effort of your part.

elcruxio

You can't actually make assumptions of the size of saddle and whether it will fit even with a relatively upright riding position, nor can you assume that the bars level with the saddle is actually a high riding position where a wider seat may or may not be required. Saddles are personal and a lot of different factors relate to whether the saddle needs to be narrow or wide.

I have my saddle at the same height as my handlebar. However I have quite a bit of reach on my bike so that equals to a pretty heavy forward lean. In terms of saddle with, with my sit bones being around 135mm wide I probably should use a 155mm saddle at the least. However my current saddle is 135mm wide and I think it's a bit too wide because it's cause saddle sores so I'm considering going down to 120mm. But that actually works out because of my the natural pelvic position, which for me is in line with my spine when I'm on the bike. So with a lot of reach my pelvis is pretty heavily leaned forward even on my highest riding position.

If you are however the type of rider who has their pelvis upright and the lean forward comes from the lower / middle back you may need a seat that is 2cm wider than your sit bones.

So all in all, it depends. Every saddle choice in every bike is essentially saying = throw it to the landfill since a bike manufacturer has no possibility to anticipate the needs of a single rider, let alone every rider that buys the bike. Add the fact that saddles are highly individual and you are in a position where no single saddle can ever fit everyone. The best approach for saving resources of course would be to not sell the bike with personalized components (saddle, pedals and even handlebars)

I'd also wager that crank length has next to no effect especially in touring context. Some people promote proportionally measured cranks which for me would mean cranks that would be upwards 220mm long but personally I believe that's just cookery developed by hacks trying to sell stuff. There are successful tall time trialists who sport 160mm cranks which again promotes the idea that crank lenght is largely irrelevant. If you're really, really, really short, well then 175mm cranks can be too long but then you'd be riding a 42cm bike or something like that. (I may be exaggerating a bit there but you get the point)

As to the matter that most would notice a 5-10mm difference in saddle height, you are absolutely correct. Some even feel 1mm. However it does not mean that even 10mm is not adaptable (I believe people are a lot more adaptable to bike fit than they think) and also that is why when swapping cranks you change your saddle height to correspond with the change.

ChipSeals

Everyone's different. But there are basic guidelines and the law of averages. Isn't that why we employ bike fitters at all? I would be cautious about giving my business to a fitter who defaulted to 135mm saddles, 175mm cranks on a 56cm bike. (Nevermind, separately, 26mm stem clamps and 10-speed Mountain components on a road bike. I might even think, "possible scammer who wants to empty out his parts bin.")

But in any event, to change the subject: QPB would make a mint if, as an option, they had a custom online bike builder: order the components you want, ship to your LBS just for assembly, with no middleman or muss or fuss. I'd pay a premium for that — maybe the cost of what they're making with component turnover. I'd be a happier customer, and I'd be avoiding lots of needless waste and a real hit to the environment.

elcruxio

Job of fitters is pretty much advising people who don't fit inside the basic guidelines and law of averages, which is most people. I think you'll find that rider size has absolutely nothing to do with their saddle width preference and weirdly enough, depending on pelvic tilt on the bike, seat bone width plays a surprisingly small role.

One of the more known fitters out there, Steve Hogg, would likely recommend for you to try a saddle that's actually narrower than 135mm. Weird things those Selle SMP's. But that also depends on your pelvic tilt and preferences. But simply because you don't like a seat that is 135mm wide does not mean a significant portion of other cyclists do not or cannot.
Strange that you would give your money to a person who can do exactly the things you can do yourself, namely follow the basic guidelines, instead of thinking outside the box like most of the best fitters do. It's not an exact science at least yet since there aren't enough studies being done.

And the seat is like 10 bucks so it's kinda like it's not even included. You can leave it at the shop if you like and if it's a good shop they'll put it into the tryout bin so that someone else can try it out.

On the topic of the DT and it's components, it's not strictly a road bike. It's a purpose built touring bike and more of a gravel grinder than a road bike and for that mountain components actually work better than road components since MTB components offer lower gearing and possibly more durability. Of course they should have gone with road brakes so that's a bummer but otherwise it's usually a good idea to with either mountain or touring specific components.
I'm not sure why they did the 26mm stem but a lot of randonneur favorite handlebars like nitto are 26mm diameter so that may play a role in the decision. Also a lot of budget moustache handlebars found around the globe are 26mm. And swapping a stem is also not a big deal at all.

But I built my own so I wouldn't have to deal with any of that.

DropBarFan

I had a steel Randonée with similar geometry to a previous Cannondale alu T-400 (with steel fork)--T-400's rear triangle was super-stiff & not so comfortable. Trucker is the most comfy-riding non-suspension bike I've had. With modern alu techniques I suppose they could make an alu version with similar ride comfort. I'd like to see an alu Trucker with suspension fork & seatpost; would be super-comfy at same weight or a bit less than the steel.