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Cantilever brakes that adjust "easily"

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Cantilever brakes that adjust "easily"

Old 03-05-18, 08:52 PM
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antmaster5000
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Cantilever brakes that adjust "easily"

I'm still rocking the stock brakes on my 80s protour and while they function great when properly adjusted, they are a massive headache to adjust. Any recommendations for modern cantis that are a bit more user friendly?
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Old 03-06-18, 12:49 AM
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I read this on forums (about difficulty adjusting cantis) and have a hard time picturing the issue. To better help with an alternative selection, what is so hard about adjusting the ones you have now.

FWIW, I use a strip of velcro to apply the brake handle so the pads are almost touching the rim, loosen the bolt holding the pad and adjust contact by rotating the lever a bit. When it's in the sweet spot tighten and repeat on the other side. Final tight squeeze to make sure contact is lined up right.
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Old 03-06-18, 06:14 AM
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The ones with the cams are a pain IMO. Most others are super easy.
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Old 03-06-18, 06:45 AM
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One possible suggestion is to make the switch to short-arm linear pull calipers (mini-Vs). Or standard length calipers with travel agents. You won't gain any mechanical advantage, but you may find them easier to adjust.

I considered doing that with my similar bike, but decided to get more expensive brake pads (Koolstop) and spend a little more time learning how to adjust them.

By the way, there is a concurrent thread in the Mechanics forum on this topic.

Last edited by andrewclaus; 03-06-18 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 03-06-18, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I read this on forums (about difficulty adjusting cantis) and have a hard time picturing the issue. To better help with an alternative selection, what is so hard about adjusting the ones you have now.

FWIW, I use a strip of velcro to apply the brake handle so the pads are almost touching the rim, loosen the bolt holding the pad and adjust contact by rotating the lever a bit. When it's in the sweet spot tighten and repeat on the other side. Final tight squeeze to make sure contact is lined up right.
I cant speak for all cantilever breaks, but it feels like I'll get the pads in a good position, and then the act of actually tightening the screw will move the pads out of position. It's almost like I need to position them so I know that they will move and hope that they move into an optimal spot for breaking (if that makes any sense).

I'll check the thread on the mechanics forum- thanks for heads up.
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Old 03-06-18, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
I cant speak for all cantilever breaks, but it feels like I'll get the pads in a good position, and then the act of actually tightening the screw will move the pads out of position. It's almost like I need to position them so I know that they will move and hope that they move into an optimal spot for breaking (if that makes any sense).

I'll check the thread on the mechanics forum- thanks for heads up.
Anything with spherical washers will be somewhat of a pain to get set 'just so'. It is something that takes doing it quite a bit to get a feeling for whether or not it is tightening straight down. Do you have a picture of the type of brake? I can tell you right now that the 'modern' Shimano style that uses a concave/convex surface on the actual brake arm is sensitive to over-tightening; you can imprint the washer face on the brake arm if you tighten it too much, which makes future adjustments that much more difficult.
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Old 03-06-18, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
... , but it feels like I'll get the pads in a good position, and then the act of actually tightening the screw will move the pads out of position. It's almost like I need to position them so I know that they will move and hope that they move into an optimal spot for breaking (if that makes any sense).
....
That is the case with all rim brakes, not just canti brakes. It takes a little care to do it right. Exception, a few rim brakes use a threadless post type mount, but I have more trouble with them. Not less.
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Old 03-06-18, 10:33 AM
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HS 22/33 Magura Hydraulic rim brakes go on cantilever posts.. I have done the adjustment setup once ,10 years ago..

because the motion is linear to the rim , the pads stay in full contact as they wear evenly..
and they snap into place when it is time to put new ones on..

the hydraulic system is closed , unlike disc brakes,
because there is no heat passed through the rim brake pads to make the fluid expand...

my set up is on trekking bars..



..
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Old 03-06-18, 11:03 AM
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I assume you have "older" post style brake pads. Have you ever tried using a brake pad holder (see Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977) and just replacing the brake pas as needed. I went this way a few years ago and once set, haven't gone back and adjusted the pad holder, just replacing the pads. However, because I don't adjust the pad holder as the pads wear, I find that I need to change the pads more often than if I adjusted the holders to keep the pads hitting the rim properly (not moving below the brake track).
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Old 03-06-18, 12:33 PM
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So far the easiest canti brakes I've used have been the stock Dia-Compe GC960s on my '84 Centurion Elite GT 15. Set them up in about 5 minutes, and they haven't given me any problems since. That's been about a year and 3 months ago now.

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Old 03-06-18, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Eggman84 View Post
I assume you have "older" post style brake pads. Have you ever tried using a brake pad holder (see Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977) and just replacing the brake pas as needed. I went this way a few years ago and once set, haven't gone back and adjusted the pad holder, just replacing the pads. However, because I don't adjust the pad holder as the pads wear, I find that I need to change the pads more often than if I adjusted the holders to keep the pads hitting the rim properly (not moving below the brake track).
That is a great idea. I've been wanting to get Kool Stop pads anyway and you might have just sealed the deal for me. As the pads wear, couldn't you just tighten the brake cable to compensate? Although that is assuming that they wear in perfect form.

Edit: What do you think about these pads?: http://www.koolstop.com/english/v_typeholder.html

Last edited by antmaster5000; 03-06-18 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 03-06-18, 01:48 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
As the pads wear, couldn't you just tighten the brake cable to compensate?
Only to a point. The geometry of cantilever brakes causes worn pads to strike lower on the brake track.
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Old 03-06-18, 01:55 PM
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Its because they swing around a pivot, as the pad wears the contact moves towards the pivot axis,


with U brakes , that was outside.. Ignored, the Pad wears thru the tire sidewall ...
downside of the under the chainstay U brake.. people ignored that..



Original Mafac Cantilevers are pretty easy to adjust, IF the post on the frame was carefully fitted.. but that is not always the case..








...

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-07-18 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 03-06-18, 02:36 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
That is a great idea. I've been wanting to get Kool Stop pads anyway and you might have just sealed the deal for me. As the pads wear, couldn't you just tighten the brake cable to compensate? Although that is assuming that they wear in perfect form.

Edit: What do you think about these pads?: Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977
Those are great brake pads. Just make sure that you get the ones with the appropriate mounting system (threaded post or smooth post; they're available in both).

With good new pads, new cables, and a good adjustment, vintage cantilevers usually provide great braking power.


Also, if you attempted to replace the front cantilevers, you may have compatibility problems. Old touring bikes usually have narrower forks with narrower post spacing (~55mm, vs ~75 mm modern). This makes it really tricky to use modern cantilevers on vintage forks. It's safer to refresh the old cantilevers.
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Old 03-06-18, 03:02 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa View Post
Those are great brake pads. Just make sure that you get the ones with the appropriate mounting system (threaded post or smooth post; they're available in both).

With good new pads, new cables, and a good adjustment, vintage cantilevers usually provide great braking power.


Also, if you attempted to replace the front cantilevers, you may have compatibility problems. Old touring bikes usually have narrower forks with narrower post spacing (~55mm, vs ~75 mm modern). This makes it really tricky to use modern cantilevers on vintage forks. It's safer to refresh the old cantilevers.
Awesome- good to know. I forget the make/model of my cantis (am currently out of town) but I recently did a disassembly and clean and they looked great and functioned great. It's about time to get new cables and housing anyways (especially since I am swapping out the bars) so it will be a nice upgrade all around.
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Old 03-06-18, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
That is a great idea. I've been wanting to get Kool Stop pads anyway and you might have just sealed the deal for me. As the pads wear, couldn't you just tighten the brake cable to compensate? Although that is assuming that they wear in perfect form.

Edit: What do you think about these pads?: Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977
Yes, you can tighten the brake cable to a certain extent as the brake pads wear. However, because the position of the cantilever posts are below the rim (i.e., toward the hub), as the pads wear they will eventually swing below the rim and hit the spokes. This is pretty extreme and I trust most people would see their pads are not hitting the brake track properly and either replace or adjust the pads.

The brake pads you linked to are good. Make sure to get the correct post style though; they are available as Threaded and Smooth Post. Best of luck finding a workable solution.
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Old 03-07-18, 06:07 AM
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Tektro 720 are light years easier to set than the older style smooth post with the cam washers.

I run original old style on my 1986 front fork because of clearance issues. Yes they are very fidgety, but good ones stay set.

On the back I run the modern 720's. A breeze and a snap to set up.
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Old 03-07-18, 11:04 AM
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Avid Shorty brakes are pretty easy to adjust. I've used them on several bikes with good results (currently have a set on my tandem, even). They have adjustment screws on each arm for easy centering and also take standard V-brake pads.

I have a used set I'd let go for pretty cheap. PM me if you have any interest.
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Old 03-07-18, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
I cant speak for all cantilever breaks, but it feels like I'll get the pads in a good position, and then the act of actually tightening the screw will move the pads out of position. It's almost like I need to position them so I know that they will move and hope that they move into an optimal spot for breaking (if that makes any sense).

I'll check the thread on the mechanics forum- thanks for heads up.
I hold the pad with one hand(thumb and pointer) and tighten with the other. That way, i am able to put cohnter pressure on the twisting of the brake pad.
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Old 03-07-18, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
I'm still rocking the stock brakes on my 80s protour and while they function great when properly adjusted, they are a massive headache to adjust. Any recommendations for modern cantis that are a bit more user friendly?
Codo's on the antique gear, still have a Betamax too? If I had two people I would have one hold the pads against the rim where you want them to contact. Set the cable adjuster all the way in so you have all the cable adjustment possible. Get hold the pads in position with the retainer nuts off, squeeze the brakes half way and finger tighten the nuts. Set them where you feel comfortable and tighten everything down. Good luck, and hold on tight.
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Old 03-08-18, 03:57 AM
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V-brakes. I've never seen a v-brake that wasn't incredibly simple to set up and stops incredibly well; even the really cheap ones. You'd need mini-v for standard road levers, though. I've never used them, but I'd Think you lose some leverage, and therefore braking power. Maybe not? As you've seen, cantis are a pita. I've read a couple articles about setting them up and proper cable length, pad toe, etc, etc. I can get them set up to stop acceptably If I use nice pads, but it's still a chore. If going canti, my best set have been my Tektro 720s. They start to give a wicked front end shimmy if the pads aren't at the right angle, though. I wouldn't recommend using the longer style mtb pads with them to increase stopping power. That was a sketchy situation stopping from high speeds. I have a firm grip and I felt like I could barely hold onto the brake hoods because the front end was shimmying so badly. Canti's are just old tech. I think they only still exist because they're what have always been on touring bikes.
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Old 03-08-18, 09:44 AM
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Well, I think that's over selling the problem a little bit.
Canti's just take a bit of learning to set up sometimes. People have been using them and stopping fine for decades. Better to address the underlying issue from a rationale standpoint rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Everything about most bicycles is old tech; from derailers you need to tension, chains you have to lube, leather saddles you have to weatherproof, tubes you have to patch, bar tape you have to wrap and... brakes you have to adjust.

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Old 03-08-18, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
I'm still rocking the stock brakes on my 80s protour and while they function great when properly adjusted, they are a massive headache to adjust. Any recommendations for modern cantis that are a bit more user friendly?
Paul's about about the easiest to adjust that I've ever used. I've used the old Diacomps like yours, Shimano, IRD Cafam and even the Avid Shorties. I would steer you away from the Avids as they squeal like a banshee on a foggy Irish moor. None of them are as easy to set up as the Paul's.
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Old 03-12-18, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Paul's about about the easiest to adjust that I've ever used. I've used the old Diacomps like yours, Shimano, IRD Cafam and even the Avid Shorties. I would steer you away from the Avids as they squeal like a banshee on a foggy Irish moor. None of them are as easy to set up as the Paul's.
^this.

IMO, Paul's are the easiest to adjust. I have both the canti's and the Minimoto v-brake on two of our bikes. They work great, look great and are very easy to adjust.

J.
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Old 03-12-18, 09:12 PM
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My handy tip for post type canti's (or V's) is to slip pieces of plastic hose over the post before you install it to space the pad from the arm. Note you'll need to find the optimum length for your bikes geometry. That way you can clamp the pads onto the rim with the lever and then tighten the clamp bolt up. Also means that with the same size hose pieces you can have the same arm spacing on both sides....
I also use a small zip tie around the leading end of the pad to get toe in...
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