djb

I'm looking for an alternative to a Tubus Logo, the one with a second lower set of rails to mount your panniers further down.
Great rack, have one on my Troll, but they are expensive, and am looking for a rear rack for an XS bike in the family. The regular rack on it puts the panniers rather high up, so it would be easier for the rider if I put on a rack that has the lower rails.
One important factor is that the stays that attach the rack to the bike have to be of a good length, just because the XS Troll is so small and the frame shape is rather low where the rack mounting points are.


suggestions?
Can be aluminum, as long as its of reasonable quality.
In this photo, the rack is an aluminum one, worked fine, but as you can see, the bags and rack are rather high compared to the rear wheel, and the higher weight makes it hard for my wife to move her bike around, lifting over stuff like steps or whatever.
She generally has a hard time moving her bike around for parking it or wheeling it around in train stations, and especially up stairs, and so Im just trying to make things a little easier for her (and consequently, for me....)

Bike is a XS Troll, so with discs, but the discs are inboard and I was able to put the Logo on my Troll without interference from the rear discs.
thanks
Heck, if anyone has a used Logo they'd like to sell, I'd be open to that also.

ps, this rack in the photo is a racktime model, similar mounting rod system to the Tubus racks (made by tubus I think) but it is simply too high.
I have looked at the Racktime Addit model, seems to be available from europe, but it starts to get a bit pricey shipping it to canada, so was wondering if there are similar racks avail here in N America easily.

fietsbob

Trek-Bontrager, it's in Aluminum , not ChroMo steel.. @trek dealers..

[img]https://trek.scene7.com/is/image/TrekBicycleProducts/09591_B_1_BackRack_Deluxe_S_Silver?$responsive-pjpg$&wid=1920&hei=1440


smaller 13-18" frames





...

Tourist in MSN

I have a couple of RackTime AddIt racks. One I bought in USA and one I had shipped from Europe to USA. The Logo which I also have is rated at 40 kg, the Racktime is aluminum and is rated at 30 kg. The RackTime I think might actually weigh a bit more than the Logo. I am not sure but I think that RackTime and Tubus are part of the same company, Tubus uses steel and RackTime uses aluminum. The welds on the Racktime look like they used a good welder, that I can't say on all of the aluminum racks that I have owned.

Do a Google search to find who sells it.

I put an AddIt on my Lynskey and also on my Velo Orange Pass Hunter. In the photos, the rack stands really high on my Lynskey because Lynskey put teh rack mounts very high above the rear axle, the Velo Orange is situated more normally.

djb

fiets, thats a really useful suggestion, especially given that it is sized specifically for smaller frames. It also is in the ballpark price range of the racktime, quick searches showed it might be around $60cad. which is perfectly fine.

This is for my wifes bike, for what she will be carrying, any good quality alu rack will work fine. Ive used good quality alu racks forever, and they work fine for all kinds of uses, and her use will be right in that range.
It does look like it will lower her panniers a good amount, so thanks, I never would have thought of a trek bontranger product.
I will make some calls to some bike shops tomorrow to see if its available, and in the meantime, I'll try to find some dimensions to see exactly how much lower her panniers would be with this rack.
danke vel

djb

thanks mister msn, as I mentioned to fiets, Ive used well made alu racks for decades, and so I know this or the trek would be absolutely sufficient for my wifes needs.
thanks for the photos. Its especially useful to see the Lynskey shot, because the Troll also puts the mounting holes rather high up, similar to yours, so this does have an impact on rack height.
Yes, Im fairly certain that racktime is a tubus company created to make more affordable alu racks for Mr and Mrs Smith with regular uses, but to go back to my earlier statement, I have ridden for decades on very reasonably priced alu racks, with no issues at all.
Im even rather impressed by how stiff the racktime rack that is on my wifes troll, its rather basic, but worked fine and is pretty solid. Its just so high because of her xs frame, 26in wheels, and the forementioned rather high rack bolt holes on the frame--I imagine the rack holes are positioned there due to a few things--the horizontal dropouts, and the various preset holes and whatnot for rohlof and bob type trailer mounts that get in the way also.

Ive done some searching for the Addit, and they are coming from the states, or europe, so it ends up being around 80 bucks with shipping, but then you also have the roulette wheel of chance for additional border fees, could be another 25 or so.

because of this, for now, I will look into the trek rack, and see if I can actually see one in person, and if it is in the range of dimensions that is lower than the present rack on her bike, Ill go for it. Also the trek one does have extra long rods, which could be nice to be able to keep the rack level.
Ill look for a photo of her bike, so you can see just how low down the frame is at the downtube/frame area where the rack horizontal mounting eyelets are.

Doug64

David, This is a shot of a Trek (small) on a 42 cm frame. It still sits pretty high. Our daughter did not have any problem with it on loaded tours. I think if there was a small rack made for 26" wheels, it might fit better. I have a Tubus Cargo made for 26" wheels which is going to be installed on our other daughter's 50 cm bike. I'll let you know how it fits.

djb

thanks Doug for the photo.
that trek rack doesnt have the second set of lower rails does it? Doesnt appear to.
I think part of the issue is that my wife wasnt used to two panniers, and it was probably a combination of that, plus she probably didnt put the heavy things down low, plus she did take too much (believe me, I tried...) and she also often has difficulties moving a bike around, even unloaded. I usually had to park her bike for her, leaning it against a wall or whatever, as she found it hard to get the position right, or she'd lean it over too far and it would fall--so Im looking to just get the panniers lower, and this should help some.

djb

thanks to all of you, I answered dougs photo before posting this update.

You will all chuckle at my stupidity.
When I bought my troll, this rack was on it, but soon got taken off and I really hadnt looked at again. So when I put it on my wifes troll, I wanted her to get using the bike, so I quickly put the rack on and while I noticed it was high on her bike, she never complained as she tended to just use one small pannier on rides. I had really wanted us to do "loaded rides" before our trip, but she wasnt keen, and so it actually never happened, and I never properly looked at her bike/rack setup again.

tonight, and this is the dumb part....I saw two things, first the rack is constructed so that you can change slightly the distance from bottom bolt hole to top of rack, by repositioning the two stays. I put a photo. I think I had tried moving them in the past, but at the lowest hole, the two stays hit each other and so you cant use the lowest hole in the bracket at the bottom.
So tonight, I bodged it a bit by filing a very small amount of one of the tabs of one of the stays, and this allowed me to move the stays down to the lowest position, so I gained about 2cm maybe.

I than also relooked at her bikes dropouts, and saw that they had added a new lower rack mounting hole much lower than the two higher ones, one of which I had used. My troll didnt have this lower hole, and I have a vague memory of looking to use the lowest bolt hole on her bike, but the plastic threaded nuts on the back of the bracket were touching the frame, so spacers would be needed....I wanted just to put the rack on so she could use the bike, and promptly forgot about all this.

so tonight, I also fished out spacers, and was able to use the lower bolt hole, gaining another 3cm probably.
In the end, the rack now is a good chunk lower than before, not perfect, but I think should be a big help.

all that said, I really do like the look of that trek rack and the Racktime Addit one also.
I was able to find the Addit dimensions, and its "bottom bolt to pannier rail" distance is still another 4cm lower than what Ive done tonight, so I think we'll see how the bike rides with panniers when winter goes away (still bloody cold today, snowy, icey, salty) and in the meantime, still try to find a trek double rail rack in town somewhere to actually see, or at least try to find the dimensions of it.

djb

and to show how much the rack is lower compared to before
ps, the "before" shot must have been taken from slightly lower, it certainly appears in the photo higher than it was I think

Tourist in MSN

That is the FoldIt rack, I bought one for my folding bike. They made two versions, you have the version with the lower ends of the stays bolted to a tab. The three different sets of holes are for 24, 26 and 28 inch wheels according to the diagram.
https://www.cyclocamping.com/pdf/rac...t-mounting.pdf

Glad you got it figured out. You might be able to get longer stays if you want to mount it horizontal, not sure which stays you have on it.

djb

thanks.
While Im not generally keen on racks that have a whole bunch of locknuts and connection points that can loosen up over time, this rack did work well even high up and with two full rear panniers.
The stays are 240mm, which seems to be the standard length , as on the Addit details page that I found. The Trek rack does have much longer stays, clearly done to help with very small frames with a much longer distance of rack to mounting holes, to help with keeping it level.
I personally dont mind a bit of forward lean, there still is a bit of play/room with these stays, so I could get it nearly level, but put it like this to help keep the pannier weight more over the axle--but will see how it rides in the spring.

what I can take from this whole thing is to be sure to use that lower mounting hole, and to compare the measurement of the Foldit rack as it is now from the mounting hole to the pannier rail, to compare to the Trek model is its easy to find one in a store here.
Like I said, if that doesnt pan out, then I'd look into an Addit, and figure out the shipping/duty fees involved for Canada along with the original price to figure it it would be worth it to get one, especially if the extra 4cm lower factor would be a help.

thanks again

djb

hi there,
found out that the trek deluxe small rack is sold in stores here, $60cad, I'll confirm it in person sometime, but a store employee told me that they measured the lower bolt hole to lower rails distance and its about 330-335mm
From my changing the holes positions on the Foldit, I got it down to 350mm

here is the Addit dimensions page, which shows that the bolt hole to lower rails is 380-77=303mm, so it would be a good chunk lowering (4.5cms) of the panniers from what changes I did with changing the bracket holes use of the Foldit rack, and using the lower down mounting hole on the dropouts.

Ideally it seems then that the Addit would be best suited, but I'll look at the Trek rack and figure out what is worth doing.

Tourist in MSN

Maybe you need to load up some panniers to the max on volume to see if your wife is happy with the height on the Foldit as you have it mounted? That said, I think that the FoldIt has more opportunity to sway with the bolted construction. Thus I think the Bontrager or AddIt is a better rack for a load.

I looked at one of my Addit racks and that does appear to be about right ~~303mm.

My Logo is closer to 310mm, but it is on a bike hanging in the basement, was hard to get to so this measurement could be off.

My FoldIt for my folding bike has a pair of bars that extend to the seatstays that are about 320 mm if you wanted to make the rack closer to horizontal, I do not recall if I hacksawed those bars to that length or if they are uncut. I know you were not interested in this measurement, but since I had a ruler in hand, went ahead and measured it.

djb

-I really was pleasantly surprised how not sway-ey the folditt was, very much surprised. With her panniers on it, it moved even less than my older bikes and racks ever did, but as you and I both feel, bolted construction will always have that possibility of not keeping on top of tightness, and then perhaps issues.

thanks for the measurements. I too eyeballed my Logo and it appeared to be a bit more, but like your bike, mine was behind another bike that I didnt bother moving, so not accuate, but close to what you got.

Im fairly certain the standard horizontal stays are 240mm, thats what is on both the Folditt and my Logo.
this is where the Trek at 350mm could be handy, but I figure lower panniers is probably more important than a perfectly level rack, but we'd have to have the racks on to see how any heel strike could be an issue, unlikely as she is short, so Im sure its fine.

thanks again. At some point I'll go to that store, its quite a ways away, so dont know when I'll get there.
It seems that U.S sold Addits are $60 U.S, which is $80cad. The $60cad Trek is $70 with taxes, so not much of a diff, so I'll just have to make a judgement call, with in mind that a U.S bought one would include a trip to Vermont to pick it up if I want to avoid shipping and duty fees.

KFC

If you could find out who makes the rear rack for the 2019 Kona Sutra, I think your problems would be solved. Its an aluminum rack, but it looks well made to me. I believe it is rated for 55 lbs., but by the looks of it, it good for a lot more. The one I looked at was on a 46cm bike and it seem to fit very well. The question is who makes them. I called Kona and they could not help me. Good Luck.

djb

thanks, another option to look at.

djb

in the end, went with the Trek small model, thanks again fiets. If the Racktime was easily available, it would have the lower rails a little bit lower than the trek, but it was just simpler to go to a store and get the trek, which was about 70 dollars.

I could even drill a new hole above the stock one above where the lower bolt goes in, if I want to lower it another cm , but already this is better than what was on the bike, so it should be ok.
The top flat section of the trek is rather wide, so easier to put one of those day pack bag things my wife has that goes on with velcro, and or anything bulky held on with bungee cords. Compared to the tubus logo, it is rather wide, where the logo side parts angle in, which is probably better for putting heavier panniers more inwards, but this should be fine for the use it will get.

the small version really does long stays, so keep this rack in mind for a very small frame where extra long stays will come in handy.
For right now, I have purposely kept the rack slightly angled forward, just to try to keep the panniers more centered over the rear axel, but can move it back easily if there are any issues, so far with a full pannier I personally dont have any heel strike as is, and my wifes feet are smaller than mine.
In general, I think its always better not to have too much pannier weight too far back, as it can cause some bike wagging issues at a certain point, and I want to avoid that at any costs. A little pannier angle isnt a big deal imo.

thanks for the suggestions and ideas in any case folks

Tourist in MSN

Sounds like you got it figured out. Great.

I agree on getting the pannier weight farther forward. My Logo has been mounted on three or maybe four different bikes, each of which had different chainstay lengths. Thus, every time I put the Ortliebs and the Logo on a different bike, I am adjusting my Ortlieb hooks to give myself just enough heel clearance. Sometimes that means moving the Ortliebs forward to reduce clearance if I think it is excessive. That is one downside of having three different touring bikes, it seems that every trip I have to re-adjust my Ortliebs.

***

Different topic (off topic), you provided some good input on fenders to me, including some options sold by Mec. In a few hours I think I will be ordering a pair of these.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod143861

Hopefully they will work fine while also being light weight and compact enough that I can pack them in the S&S case with the bike. Hopefully they will work out well, and if not then that deflector option from Mec that you previously mentioned is my contingency. I expect to arrive in Halifax NS on June 4. That gives me some time to figure out if the Zefal fenders will work or not. If not, probably would order the Mec deflectors in advance to make sure they have them when I need them.

djb

those Zefal are neat. I may look at them for the front of my wifes troll. I just finished today putting some of those deflector ones on my wifes bike, simple, fairly quick and just put tape on the contact areas.
On my old mtb, I have a similar front fender to the zefals, made for suspension forks, and it works great at least to stop dirty water going up on my face. Doesnt stop gritty water going onto the front of the chain, but its easy to come off (has a clip system to remove in 5 seconds).

Id rather not put a full fender system on this bike, for now anyway, so these options are workarounds and do a reasonable job, at little weight and little fuss and muss if you want to throw your bike into the trunk of a car or whatever.

Tourist in MSN

Two versions, 26 inch and 700c. I suspect when they arrive in the mail and I have all the parts in front of me that I might be watching this video two or three times.

Where fenders like SKS race blades for skinny tire bikes have a tool-less installation, looks like the Zefal is pretty much the same thing but with tools.

djb

on my old mtb, I have had a front SKS mtb fender on for maybe 15 years, at least 10 anyway.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...7.5-650b-77503

amazon photo
https://www.amazon.ca/SKS-Dashboard-Bicycle-26-Inch-Mountain/dp/B004BRZ9FY/ref=asc_df_B004BRZ9FY/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292967925018&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16396789531805205675&hvpone=&hvptwo=&h vqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000446&hvtargid=pla-382973170920&psc=1

mine is the older version, but Im sure its the same idea---a bolt in "mount" gets screwed into the open base of the headtube, and there is a quick release system to slide this front fender on.
I find it very handy for putting bike in a car, comes off in seconds, and has lasted all these years, a bit beat up but it stops my face getting a dirty muddy line of water thrown into it.
Stops a certain amount of gunk going onto frame, but honestly, it doesnt extend low enough to stop chainrings and area from getting gunked up.

It is however really well made and tough.

but its a compromise isnt it?

at least tho it has the front section so you dont get face sprayed.

djb

bad photo, but to show

Tourist in MSN

I think I have about three different versions like that sitting in the basement. I need one that won't catch on my 1 liter sized water bottle under the downtube, so it needs to be held to the fork more firmly than one of those that is only held to the fork crown. It is a bad photo but I think you can see that the tire is close enough to the water bottle that one of those ones that is not firmly attached to the fork could be a real problem on a bumpy rough road where I am trying to steer around pot holes or trying to miss the worst of the washboarding.

djb

makes sense, hope it works out clearance wise