nimoWS

Hey there touring gurus!

First things first: Budget of ~$2000

After messing around with a few old bikes off CL for the last couple years, and with a rapidly growing interest in touring, I've decided it's time to invest in a new, reliable platform that will do me well in my mid-long distance endeavors. However, the sheer number of options, configurations, recommendations, and possible scenarios have left me in somewhat of a daze, and I seek the advice of the hive mind and all its variation to help clarify my vision.

Before the short list of bikes I'm interested in, here are some of the various important (seemingly) aspects I'm considering:

• Steel frame (duh)
• ~20 (or less) gear inch low end
• Upright seating position
• Room for big tires and fenders
• Reliability / accessibility in parts and mechanism (e.g. mech disk vs. hydro disk)
• Price for build and number of accessories (e.g. does it come with dyno, racks, fenders, etc.)

Here is kind of a short list of bikes that interest me so far (not in any sort of order):

More road focused:

• Co-op ADV 1.1
• Masi Giramondo
• Bombtrack Arise Tour
• Salsa Marakesh
• Trek 520
• Fuji Touring Disc

More All-Road/Bike-Packing focused:

• Marin Four Corners 2
• Salsa Fargo
• Surly Bridge Club
• Co-op ADV 3.1
• Insert upright gravel bike here

Bikes I've Test Ridden

• Co-op ADV 1.1
  Did not find it amazing, which was odd because I was pretty excited after the positive quality-for-price content I consumed previous to testing it. I agree the hardware and build is definitely fantastic for as of right now ~$1000 (insane price I know).
• Marin Four Corners 2
  Ok so riding this was kind of like riding a cloud. Extremely smooth. Surprisingly light for what sort of seems like a big bike with big tubes and big wheelsets. Of course this will get heavier with racks and gear, but I was impressed nonetheless.

Here Are The Issues I'm Having

1. GEARING: 1x? 2x??? 3x??? I've almost pulled the trigger on the Four Corners a few times over the last two days. The things that are holding me back are the 1x drive train, of course. However, that 1x drive train has a 40T chainring and 10-52 cassette (holyyyy). Big jumps between gears, and I know a lot of you don't like that, and I understand why, and that definitely also gives me hesitation. That being said, I've been chucking around on rebuilt 80s and 90s road and MTB for the last several years, with gear ratios from hell (I don't even have a front derailleur on my current 90s MTB - I get off and switch it by hand when I need to climb LMAO). The lowest ratio I have is on that MTB and it's 25 gear inches. The low ratio I have on my current 80s road Miyata is 40 gear inches (yeah I know) and I've climbed some pretty massive road hills with it without a second though aside from (this is hard am I gonna throw up). Taking all that into consideration, the lack of micro-jumps between gears, and a low gear of 22 gear inches really seem like small hurdles and will likely feel like a dreamy ride from heaven, at least for a little while. On the other hand, what do I know??? I do know that I can ultimately change these things, and the only wall to overcome is cost. A simple change to the Four Corners would be sizing-down the chainring from a 40 to a 36 for a 20 gear inch drive, or even a 32 for 18 gear inches! The stock high end is 113 gear inches, which isn't so bad, and gives the drivetrain a solid 513%. If I made those changes, the smallest chainring would bring it down to like 90, which is slow, but I guess I would just coast more and move a little slower on tail-wind flats. I am also aware that fixing a 1x train is counter-intuitively probably more expensive as it's one big dumb cassette and that's a lotta metal for a dinner plate.
   
2. SIZING: I'm exactly 5'11 and 2/3 inch tall. We can consider my height 6' for the sake of ease, but I honestly think that 1/3 inch can make a difference when choosing a bike. When it comes to the Four Corners, for some reason it sort of felt big. I wasn't stretched out, solid gap between me and the top tube when standing feet-on-ground, and the riding position felt just fine. I would probably want to modify it a bit with different bars and a that rises a bit more, but the general size all seems to indicate it being good. It just felt bigger if that makes any sense at all. The medium is only really smaller in height. The seat tube is significantly shorter, which would lead to a higher seat position, which would be a lower riding position, which would mean further modifying the head stuff to get it all feeling better again. To contrast THAT, I read that slightly larger bikes are more stable for heavier loads, which I like! So maybe it just looked big when I looked in some glass? Maybe I'm just not used to that kind of geometry? 90s MTBs are pretty upright, so it's never been a great departure from my road frames, so that could definitely be the case.
   
3. IN-STOCK: I live in a place where MTB is LIFE, so like 75% of bike options are MTB, 24% are road, and probably less than 1% are touring bikes. That's where the gravel-ish bikes come in. Where there are practically no straight-up touring offerings, there are plenty of solutions like the Four Corners, Salsa Fargo, and others that I haven't put on my list. I didn't include them because their riding positions are more aggressive and that indicates an overall bike design philosophy I don't want to sink my teeth into.
   
4. UPSTANDING MEMBER OF MY COMMUNITY: I really want to buy locally, so my local shop professionals know the bike I bought and be my go-to servicers. I also like to support local shop, as well (don't we all). However, I am also absolutely willing to pull the trigger on something I need to order, if it's the most firest pony in the stable and is a fantastic fit.
   
5. THE CRUX - WHAT I WANT: I am obsessive and indecisive. But I'm also very open-minded and eagerly receive suggestions and anecdotes from enjoyers of things I've yet to consider! I've spent the last few weeks reading everything, watching everything, measuring my arms, legs, torso, my road bikes, my old-ass MTB, counting gear teeth, putting numbers in calculators, on and on ad nauseum. I want a bike that will handle roads, light trails, and even some meatier demands if need be. I want to be comfortable riding long distances on these mediums as well (though mostly road and light-trails). I also know that I'm not actually going to go ride across the United States, like, very soon. I imagine my use case for right now (this summer) long-day tripping, multi-day tripping (4-5) with a credit card and sleeping in hotels or whatever. Definitely some camping riding, but camping in established camp sites so that means hauling my tent and stuff. That last case is actually the most desirable as I would be hauling a heavier load, without committing to carrying catchers gear and several firearms to fight the hordes of bear along the Great Divide. Also, I don't want to sit around anymore, because I'd like to start riding my steed now, get to know it, and prepare for some good times down the literal road(ish).

TL;DR: I'm aware of gear ratios, riding position, packing style, road style, trip style, in all ways but actual experience, but I thirst for it, so I've been diving into research without coming up for air. I am overwhelmed with the options available to me and beyond. I've written my feelings on gear ratios above and how I may or may not really care about the pros and cons of extreme 1x setups vs. the tried and true 3x. I can't go and test ride all the bikes I want because they're not in my area. I could maybe go visit someone I know in the big city, but it's a distance, and that's also a whole to-do and I don't really like them very much (just kidding haha noah you're the best). I like the classic touring focused build, but I also like the flexibility of the more "all-road" builds, and I cannot for the life of me figure out what's the move.

If I could, I'd just buy the Koga WorldTraveller, but I can't afford to fly to the Netherlands, buy it, and tour Europe (which I would LOVE TO DO THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA MAN). I can't actually do that for a number of years as I decided to go back to school for another degree in my 30s and a EURO BIKE TOUR just doesn't really fit that schedule.

Maybe this is a wall of text and I just said nothing, but let me hear your opinions on things like tour bikes vs. gravely bikes, how they handle luggage, etc, etc.

All input is good input and if someone leads me to my prized mount, then I'll put your username on a patch and stitch it to my bag.

veganbikes

I wil put in a big word for Co-Motion, I have a Cascadia and its s a great bike and they have others I wish I now had knowing what I know now but the bike is still fantastic.

Yes the Co-Motion is going to be a bit more expensive but does not require a trip anywhere (or at least in your case if you did want to travel it is closer or right nearby in Eugene, Oregon) Also if you know what you want it is the better option as you can get what you want. That is what I did and then added some stuff down the line realizing I should have done it from day one.

Personally I would be quite happy with a 2X11 set up with probably a 46/30 at the front and a 11-46 at the back. I currently have a 3x9 set up with mechanical discs and that is fine but for my usage a 2x11 would work just fine and give me plenty of gearing and also make for a better allrounder then my current touring bike.

If you want to see a list of component spec for my new touring bike I may end up building down the road I can send you what I did a year or two ago.

I am with you on the obsessive part. I have folders full of spec'd out dream bikes (in parts not so much geometry) I want to build and will revisit them every so often to make the best thing I can. I find stock bikes to be OK but nothing I really want because I know I want to switch out a lot of stuff from the get go because even on the top of the top end of bikes there is probably some preference I have that they don't spec.

Probably the closest bike to what I might buy off the shelf(ish) that i came across semi-recently is this:
https://www.panoramacycles.com/en/product/boreal-en/
For me it would be XT 4 pots and I am honestly interested in trying CUES and going with the Velocity/I9 set up. Though Rohloff would be high on the list but I really love my E14 set up and they don't yet have a non-e-bike version yet.

In the end though try some bikes or really hone in on what you want in the bike not so much gearing (though that is quite important) but how you are going to be riding it most often what attachment points do you want or need, stuff like that. That will help out greatly.

Salsa Fargo Ti would be a cool frame to build up. I have a Timberjack Ti that I built as a mountain bike and love it. However that would eat up the budget just on frame but what a frame. I also had a Surly Disc Trucker and it was a great bike but again going and doing it again it would have ended with basically a frame up build and not a stock build for me.

The Marrakesh was cool but the current gearing is not what I would choose but I guess sensible for the price and time plus I think it has a straight 44mm head tube meaning you can mount a variety of forks which is cool

Trek used to be good on the 520 it was the bike of theirs I still liked but then they skewed up the fork and made a decent bike into craaaap (and not just because it isn't Scottish)

The Four Corners was a neat bike when it came out and I remember wanting one now with SRAM Apex not so much.

The Bombtrack from what I recall is generally decently spec'd but they cheap out on some stuff but I feel like they were one of the few who had a dynamo from the start.

The Fuji Touring Disc surprisingly is back on my decent list. Still wouldn't want a modern Fuji but it looks like the bike is good parts these days for most of it at least. It is also nice they have kept it in their line up and haven't totally mucked it up over the years generally.

Masi looks to not really exist anymore and is owned by Haro. the Haro website doesn't show anything from them, not a great sign.

REI bikes are ok, nothing to wow but for members probably a good price and while generally around me the bike shop portion is less than great some people have great shops.

I decided to go through the bikes briefly for some reason useful info to you but probably didn't need to go through everything.

Tourist in MSN

On one day you might prefer one, on a different day you might prefer a different one. Don't let the decisions weigh on you too much, in the end you might prefer one based on color.

It is hard to make suggestions to someone that has thought things out as completely and clearly as you already have. I find that I am only adding other things to consider, making your decision even harder.

Some factors, like for example a dynohub, they may look important but for most people are not that critical. If you can keep your phone turned off while riding, if your tour is five or six days or less, a good power bank may be enough to recharge your GPS, lighting in a campsite, taillights on the road in daytime, and occasional phone use to stay connected to the world while checking weather forecasts. I have a dynohub on each of my touring bikes, but my tours are measured in weeks, not days and I want to be self sufficient for power instead of having to search for power outlets when my batteries are low. And I am often charging up my camera batteries with power from the dynohub. Before I retired, my vacations were measured in days, not weeks. For most people in the pre-retirement boat, a dynohub is an unnecessary luxury. A powerbank that will provide days of power will suffice instead.

One factor that you were silent on is shifter type. I prefer bar end shifters for touring, but as more and more people get into touring after owning a road bike with brifters (combined brake and shfiter lever on drop bars), I think the preference by most is brifters. And brifters of different manufacturers have different shifting mechanisms, you may have a preference for shifter type. I would also suggest cable, not electronic shifting.

One rarely noticed area where newer model bicycles may differ a lot is the height of the rear lower rack mounting points above the axle. Some have it quite high, some much lower. Lower was the historical standard. If quite high, suddenly you have a rack much higher above the wheel unless you compensate by buying a different rack than you really wanted, and a higher rack is a higher center of gravity with higher panniers.

A decade ago, the norm for wheels for touring was 36 spoke count, now 32 is becoming more common, as manufacturers are often just saving a few pennies on spoke count, which in the end means that rim manufacturers are selling fewer 36 spoke rims and selection of good 36 spoke rims can be on the decline. I would prefer to buy a 36 spoke rear wheel, but that is getting harder to find and I would not make this the most important factor.

There are clear advantages and disadvantages to both tubeless and tube type tires and rims. But the rims for tubeless are different than non-tubeless, so add that consideration. I prefer inner tubes, and I would not want tubeless type rims that have the tire bead shelf in the rim that makes it harder to change a tube type tire. You should decide which group you are likely to be in, the tubeless group or tube type. Changing a bike from tube type to tubeless is several hundred dollars for a second set of wheels. Some of that is personal preference. Tubeless requires maintenance of the sealant in the wheels. I have several bikes that I ride, I average one puncture a year and I do not want to maintain sealant in several bikes. And on some of my bikes I will change tires for different road conditions, which is harder to do with tubeless.

For a 700c touring bike that is almost always used on pavement, I prefer one that takes a 37mm wide tire and also has room for fenders. You already mentioned that tire width and fenders are on your list, I am simply giving you my preference for that type of road surface. Others will have different preferences for narrower or wider.

If you have the storage space and later may have the funds, do not rule out more than one touring bike. I have three. One is of heavy construction with great strength, handles significant loads for remote travel on bad surfaces, can take tires up to 57mm wide with a 65mm fender size. One is pretty light but actually handles a heavy load better than I expected, it takes up to 37mm wide tires with 45mm fenders, best used on pavement. And a third one that fits in between these two categories, can take tires up to 50mm wide with fenders, do not recall the fender width on this one, maybe 60mm. The last one I mention that is in between the others, I have used that on both pavement tours with 40mm wide tires and off road (rail trail) tours with 50mm tires.

My last tour was with my light touring bike, the tour before that with the heavy one, and the tour before that used the medium one. I decide which bike in part on the expected road surfaces and on expected distances (in time) between food sources, am I carrying up to a few days of food or a few weeks of food on the bike?

In the end, the best bike is the bike that fits best, is geared for the conditions and load carried, and handles that load with confidence on tires that are best suited for the conditions you are riding on.

Trakhak

If that's your no-compromise choice, I guess you're flexible on your "Steel frame (duh)" stance, since it has an aluminum frame and aluminum fork.

The Koga Worldtraveller would absolutely be my pick, too. You don't see too many posts on Bike Forums about the virtues of aluminum touring frames (with the exception of the occasional one extolling Cannondale's touring models), but European tourists are apparently somewhat less doctrinaire about steel frames than U.S. tourists, from what I've seen of the touring bikes on offer over there.

HobbesOnTour

You're overthinking this.
Your 90's MTB should be perfectly adaptable to your needs and come in at a lot less than 2k.

My respectful suggestion is to think less and do more.

Yan 

My wife rides a Co-motion touring bike. It's a nice bike but it won't meet the 2000 dollar budget.

​​​​​If I was you I'd simply get a second hand Surely Long Haul Trucker and be done with it. Upgrade parts gradually as they wear out.

Pratt

As an investment, bikes make junk bonds look like T-Bills, so used bikes can offer a lot of bike for the money. People age out of them, fall out of love with them, fall in love with a new bike. (check out the "Bikes" entry I'm members IDs.) I ride a bike built in 1991 and it is pretty much what you describe in par.#5. It cost $1500.00 then, I couldn't get that for it now. What ever you get, make sure it fits well, then review the threads here on what seat.
Also, you can take comfort in the fact that each tour, in fact, each ride, will teach you something about what you want in a bike. What ever you get will be a starter bike, a learner; and each ride will make you value higher/lower gearing, rim/disc brakes, etc.
The ideal bike, like most ideals, does not exist, but its pursuit is still valid, and fun.

Tourist in MSN

That is why I have three touring bikes. This way I can choose the one that I think will be closest to the ideal for the particular terrain, hills, road surfaces, etc., for each trip.

Pratt

Good idea! Now you just have to get your SAG wagon to bring the appropriate bike to meet you for differing stages.

MilhouseJ

My first serious tourer was a Fuji Touring Disc, which also doubled as my commuter for a fair bit until N+1 took hold of me. I ended up swapping the bar-ends for some Gevenalle shifters because I liked the idea of keeping my hands in one place, but that bike saw lots of use. Coincidentally, my Fuji is for sale...😁

RB1-luvr

I have a 2023 Trek 520 (last year they were made). It's a good bike for road and light gravel. Maybe you can find a gently used one.

sean.hwy

I recommend a topstone 1. It comes with grx 2x. The grx 2x allows you to install a 11-40T cassette. I have been running this since 2020 on my older giant with no issues.
On my topstone I installed a smaller crank and chain ring 42/29 in the front and 11-40T on the back. It has BSA threaded BB so it will be easy to swap out and maintain in the future. Since it's a gravel bike it will accept 45mm tires.

https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bik...tone-1-c15602u


For touring it comes with mounts on the top tube, forks, under the down tube and the seat stays.

john m flores 

Analysis Paralysis.

​​​​Get the Marin. Ride it. Upgrade and enhance as needed.

Life is short. Summer's here