Alright, I've thrown up a few threads asking questions already, and I have my choices dialed down to two for my tour. Given the fact that I am doing the tour for charity, I managed to convince the owner's at two seperate LBSs to give me a significant discount on a Rivendell Atlantis and an Older Indy Fab Independence, now the only question is which one to purchase.

Independence:
1999 Frame size 55 center to center
Reynolds 853 tuning
Built up with a 48-34-26 crank
8 speed cassette
barcons
chris king headset
xt rear deraileur
xtr front der.
Mavic t520 rims
Mavic 36 hole hubs
Selle San Marco Regal saddle
7/8 speed barcons
(82cm Standover, 55 cm top tube 24 lbs)

Atlantis size 58 (big difference)
sugino crank 48-36-26
xt 9 speed cassette
xt r derail.
105 f derail
Nitto Bars
9 speed barcons
brooks "aged" b 17
(essentially a standard riv build)
(83 standover, 58 top tube 26 lbs)

The rivendell is roughly $80 More than the indy, but I'm not sure about the eight speed, or it the indy would be too small (86 cm (33.8 inch) inseam, 5'10) So before I take the plunge Ithought I would ask y'all what you thought (and please don't say buy a trek, the deal is such that I really can't pass it by, plus I can't find any surly LHT's anywhere). Right now I'm leaning toward the riv.

Thanks

The chief advantage of an IF is that you usually get custom geometry. Since this is an old one, I assume that's not the case. Both will work fine and there's nothing wrong with eight speed. It's cheaper and at least as durable as nine speed. Two pounds of weight savings is nice, but if it's too small, it isn't worth it. I believe Rivs are measured center to top, so the 55cm IF is closer to a 56 Riv, but Riv top tube is going to be a lot longer. But that's partially compensated by the taller seat tube which gives you a smaller saddle to bars drop.

Only you can really tell if the size is right. See if you can put a few miles on both before you make up your mind.

The age is pretty much irrelevant.

Buy the one fits best. The LBS should help you fit each one.

That's the thing, they both ride fine, but am I going to feel a difference after 3,000 miles?

I see people in here recommending a little bit larger of a frame, whil other recommend a smidge smaller frames, so I'm getting confused.

Assuming both are good fits for you (they are, right? Because if one fits better than the other, there's your answer right there), there are two schools of thought:

i. go in and buy the IF. If you feel pangs of regret, cancel the check, take back the bike and get the Atlantis.....or......

ii. which colour do you like the best?

I like them both, unfortunately. It comes down to whether I want the lighter IF or the 9 speed, newer atlantis.

If in doubt, buy them both

Fit is most important. The eight vs. nine speed issue is pretty trivial. You can always replace the cassette and shifters (only!) to go nine speed if you want. You probably won't be able to recover the two pound difference if you go with the heavier bike, though.

What kind of wheels are on the Atlantis?

I say the Atlantis, the 55cm sounds small for a guy that's 5' 10".
How much is the IF? I am 5' 8"... it might fit me. Of course, if I get another bike my wife will

I'd pay extra for the 8 speed.

Presumably you have owned bikes before, So model the seat crank space and see which one has the best comparison to a bike you are really comfortable on. They figure out what reach you want. Be sensitive to stearing tube length and handling.

Wheels on the atlantis are Mavic A719 (so newer t520s) with XT hubs.

One of the main difference in the bikes is the top tube length. While the IF is 55cm the Riv is 58, which is normally a bit long. But according to the website, the lower saddle position increases reach. Generally I like the effective tt to be around 65-66.

I highly doubt that a 55 and a 58 fit the same unless one (both?) are measured really weirdly.

BTW, what LBS are these?

With the longer TT you use a shorter stem which puts more of your weight over the center of the wheel base. In theory that is suppose to help dampen some of the road shock. It also makes the steering feel a bit lighter which is a plus when you have loaded panniers on the front. This was/is common on French touring bikes which the Riv is loosely based on.

BTW nearly a pound of the weight difference is in the saddles. You will want the Brooks eventually

Belmont Wheel Works and Harris Cyclery.

The riv is c to t while the IF is C to C. So that would explain the hige difference in measuring, the riv is bigger than the IF (which is more similar to my roadie, Seat just a tiny bit above the handle bars)

Well, I'm also 5'10" and I ride a 53.3 Thorn frame with a short top tube. I've been riding this for some yeras now and I doubt any made to measure frame would fit me any better.

8 speed tends to be more durable and better shifting. Slightly.
Honestly, I wouldn't choose a bike based on 8 v 9.

What type of riding do you want to use the bike for? I know that touring is the obvious answer, but you also might want to consider the "all around" factor on the Riv--it might be cool to be able to slap some really fat tires on it in order to ride fire roads and light trails etc. That thing is a real tank from what I hear.

That being said, like everyone else has mentioned--get the one that fits (I would certainly trust the folks at harris cycles if you're not sure...)

Buy from Harris, I had so-so luck with the service at Belmont. I'm also betting the Riv will be more versatile--fatter tire, fenders, etc.

Sooo, I put the deposit down on the riv. I hope I don't notice the two extra pounds as I cross the continental divide 6 times! (I'm a bit of an ultra light backpacking freak)

good choice! you will lose 2lbs the first week on the road.