jameswelle

Is it safe to mount the ESGE two-legged kickstand directly on the chainstays of a Surly Long Haul Trucker. I am worried that when I tighten down the kickstand, I am going to damage the chainstays. Do I need to have a mounting plate brazed on to the frame?

Sebach

I had this exact same question when I got my ESGE and LHT. My answer is no, you won't mash the chainstays but you will mess up the paint. I had my LHT hold about 65 pounds of stuff, not including the bike itself, at one point and still used the kickstand. No problems. I eventually started carrying a big allen key on tour because I used the kickstand so often, it eventually worked its way loose every now and then. I could have used loctite I guess, but I had a bunch of "common" Allen keys anyway, so what's one more.

Edit: And when you cut down the legs, make sure to test it again and again to make sure it's level. I left on tour with about 2mm of extra material on one side... and with a full load, that can lead to tip-overs. I eventually learned to turn my handlebar one way so it balanced out.

vik 

I use an ESGE kickstand on my LHT and it works great. I asked Surly if this was okay before installing it and they said yes. They did caution me not to tighten it excessively though. Since the only function of the bolt is to keep the stand attached you don't need to go crazy on it. The bolt doesn't support the bike weight.

Great kickstand and it makes other tourers envious when you get off your bike in the middle of nowhere to do something and don't have to lie it down.

Sebach

So true!

philso

use some thin rubber or part of an old innertube to protect your paint.

Sebach

Yeah, did that... it eventually wore right through the inner tube. Because my bike was so bloody heavy, it had lots of very subtle "rocking" to it when it was kick-stood(?), just from the wind, and maybe the road vibration combined with dirt helped, anyway, it just rubbed its way through the inner tube after 5000km. I eventually used everything from bar cork to duct tape. But that was after the initial damage was done, oh well, my tourer couldn't stay pretty. Right now I think I have a thin slab of duct tape in place, wrapped over and over onto itself, jammed in there.

Bekologist

ESGE-pletcher and the Long Haul Trucker?

oh, yeah.

Cota

Alright. I know this is an old thread, but the subject line is my exact question.

I've read alot of threads on the ESGE double legged kickstand, and decided to put one on my new LHT I got last week. So I'm in my LBS this morning and ask them to put one on, but there were some issues.

Firstly, I was afraid of scratching the paint, so I bought some innertube along and asked them to use that. The wrench didn't think that was a good idea and might allow the kickstand to move around. He had some thicker plastic/rubber/other material that he offered up, but it made the bracket too "tall". I'll have to go back and ask him too tall for what, as I wasn't clear what he was talking about because I got distracted by issue two.

Secondly, the bottom of the mount runs into the cable for the rear derailluer. It just barely touches the cable, and I was worried that it might wear the cable down rubbing against the bracket. I suppose a guy could grind a little of the bracket away so the cable didn't rub. But, didn't any of you other LHT owners run into this?

Anyways, with these couple of issues, I got scared off and left the shop with nothing. I was pretty depressed because I was really looking forward to having a kickstand and not have to deal with leaning against this or that along with the other benefits of a centerstand.

Re-reading all the ESGE double legged kickstand threads (in particular the ones with an LHT + ESGE) after I got home, has renewed my enthusiasm though, and I intend to go back and get it installed.

I want to find a solution to my second issue before I do though.

Thanks for any tips!

-Cota

diesel_dad

Here is exactly what happens when you mount the Pletscher kickstand on the LHT with no innertube underneath:


After that I remounted myself using innertube underneath wrapped in electrical tape. Eventually I fixed the damage by having the frame sandblasted and powdercoated a different color. YMMV.

Cyclesafe

To prevent the Pletscher from twisting into my left crank arm I tightened the bolt so much that I dented my frame. Of course the paint was destroyed too. I tried inner tube material, rubber mats etc etc etc, but still the kickstand wouldn't stay put. I gave up.

Another solution that is much lighter and cheaper than the Pletscher (but not as cool) is to use a velcro strap to bind the frame to the front wheel and lean the bike against something. If you still insist on free standing, get a clickstand - more expensive than it should be but far far lighter than the Pletscher.

vik 

Use something between your stand and your frame that is grippy like cloth tape and then you won't have to tighten the stand's mounting bolt so much.

rodar y rodar

This guy hasn`t posted in over a year, but can somebody explain what he might have been talking about? If one of the legs is 2mm too long, wouldn`t that just leave enough room under one of the tires for an ant to crawl under and get a little shade? Is there really a reason that could lead to your bike falling over? I don`t have a Surly, but I am interrested in the Esge double stands for our tandem. PS: I couldn`t care less about a little bit of paint on my CSs.

Cyclesafe

It is tricky cutting the two legs horizontal to the ground so that they are not too high or two low. If a mistake is to be made they should be cut slightly high to suspend the bike just a little. But actually in practice, where you park will be rarely be as level, even, and solid as your garage floor.

I tried velcro, grabbie tape and everything else I could scrounge up and never was able to tighten the bolt so that the Pletscher stayed put at a torque that wouldn't dent my chainstays. Buyer beware!

alaska joe

the legs come longer than you need, so you have to cut them down to the length that works for your bike

i sawed about one inch or so off of mine

apparently this guy wasn't real precise in doing the cutting and was left with one leg of the kickstand longer than the other, which isn't a good thing

rodar y rodar

So the problem that guy had was probably that ONE leg was long and made it uneven, rather than that both tires didn`t quite reach the ground?

Neil G.

Quite the opposite, actually. I don't have a LHT, but on my Cannondale T800, the derailluer cable has worn a nice groove into the kickstand plate. So, no need to have someone grind it down, the cable will take care of that itself. I put a spot of lube at the contact point on initial installation, but didn't worry about it beyond that.

For the "too tall" issue, he could be referring to the bolt length. The supplied bolt might not be long enough to go through the top plate, the padding, the frame, and the bottom plate to be sufficiently connected. I discovered I had this exact problem two days ago, when the kickstand busted off the bottom of the bike when it was first engaged and holding a full touring load. Luckily I was right there to catch it before it fell over! But I replaced it with a longer bolt, and all is fixed now (the tear-out didn't seem to mess up the threads too badly).

The trick with the ESGE that makes it different than most other kickstands is that the bolt doesn't go *through* the bottom of the kickstand. There is only a bolt entry hole, with no exit. So the bolt has to be a reasonably-specific length: long enough to grab enough threads, but not so long that it bottoms out before achieving a good clamp of all the pieces.

For several years, I had a piece of innertube in there, both as protection, and to add a little spacer because the bolt was just a smidge too long. But recently I replaced the top plate with one from another kickstand, and went without the inner tube. It seems to be clamped down pretty strongly, and now it doesn't have that bit of rubbery play that it did with the innertube in there. Also, that Cannondale has a block between the chainstays, so most of the clamping force is on that block rather than the chainstays, so I don't have much fear of cranking it down.

I short, I'd say there's nothing to be worried about for you, you'll be able to get it to work somehow, and then you'll love it!

Neil

Neil G.

I was always under the impression that having one wheel up in the air was normal operation.

It seems like a tripod (two kickstand legs + one tire) is more stable than four contact points, because unless you're on perfect ground, one of the four will always be up in the air. And if one of those points in the air is a kickstand leg, the momentum gained when a breeze shifts the weight from one kickstand leg to the other could be enough to knock the whole bike over.

So yeah, I can certainly understand that having slightly-uneven kickstand legs would be a problem, and that turning the handlebars would be a solution to it (to ensure that the weight remains on one leg rather than rocking between them), but at that point it seems like you aren't even using the second kickstand leg.

Neil

Doconabike

Yes, it is safe. I am a big fan of the ESGE two-legged kickstand. I used one for years on my old commuter that was built up from a mountain bike frame. When I started commuting on a Surly LHT, I transferred the kickstand over to the new bike. The chainstays on the old bike looked fine even after years of abuse. (the paint was trashed, but the structural integrity of the chainstays was fine).

I was worried about the paint on the new chainstays, so I put a little electrical tape around the stays. I used to have a bit of old inner tube as protection on my old commuter, but this would degrade every year or so and the kickstand would become loose. The electrical tape seems to be holding up, but I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to check underneath every year or two for rust.

If you are worried about crushing the chainstays, just don't crank down crazily hard on the bolt. The chainstays are fairly robust.



I really should trim the feet just a little. My mountain bike frame had a slightly higher bottom bracket, so mounting the same old kickstand on the Surly LHT makes the front wheel stick up fairly far in the air. This hasn't caused any problems, but it would look a little better trimmed so the bike rests more level.

EGUNWT

Um...I'm a noob here, but...

Loctite? The red kind that isn't permanent? Then snug it down and let it set overnight.

It'll (1) lubricate the threads a little while you tighten it, so everything will be in tension correctly, and (2) keep the bolt from backing out.

Just an idea.

Cota

Well that seals it. I'm going to go back and get my kickstand in the morning. Thanks for the photos and tips gents.

And Vic, if you stumble back in here, what is 'shoe goo' and 'cloth tape'?

-Cota

vik 

Well cloth tape - like used for hockey sticks and other sports gear...it will protect the paint and add some grip so you wouldn't have to tighten the bolt down so much. As opposed to electrical tape which is slippery. You can also zip tie some old inner tube on to your chainstays to protect them.

Shoe Goo is a common repair product for footwear and such. When it dries it's still flexible and rubbery....it doesn't get brittle. Two ways to use it on your ESGE stand 1) rough up the mounting surfaces that would clamp your chainstays and use a light coat of Shoe Goo on them, let it dry and then mount your stand to the bike [I'd use some cloth tape or old inner tube on the chainstays as well] 2) put a coat on your mounting bolt to keep it tight.

diesel_dad

You'd be better off to use Loc-Tite Blue on the mounting bolt (or any rack or fender mounting bolts as well). It holds firmly but is not permanent. It's pretty much of a standard among bicycle mechanics. I have no idea what would be involved in removing Shoe-Goo from threads after a year or two since it's intended to be permanent on shoes.

Here is a link:
Loc-Tite Blue

BWF

Has anyone tried a Drop Stand from Memory Lane Classics?

Here is one on an old clunker...

vik 

It cleans off easily as it stays flexible.

Cota

A couple of other ideas I had -

Spray on truck bed liner. Apply that all the way around the bit of chainstay. It's super durable, and has a rough texture. You'd never see the paint underneath again, but you'd probably not see bare metal either. Though I wonder if they could apply that to such a minute area without disassembling the bike and taping it off. Ok, that's a silly idea.

Or how about that sticky backed no-slip material they put on stairs/ramps or other slippery surfaces for foot traffic? Fairly durable, might need a periodic re-application. Great non-slip surface. I wonder how well it would stick to such a smooth surface though.

Or, I should just not try to brainstorm before I've had my morning coffee.

-Cota