I'll try to answer just a few of your questions.

1. I'll also suggest panniers instead of a trailer. There's nothing wrong with a trailer but I prefer hauling everything on the bike. Take what you need, but no more. If you pack too heavy, there's no disgrace in mailing excess stuff home when you're on the road.

2. Use highway maps to plan your route. You'll be able to determine which roads are busiest and which are less traveled. When you're traveling through mountains, you need to know how high your passes will be. Topographical maps will give you a good idea of how a road elevation will change and what you can expect to find along the way. For camping stops, most towns of any significant size will have private or town-run campgrounds. If you stop at visitor information centres along the way, you can inquire about camping facilities in the vicinity. You can also find out a lot of information about road conditions and elevations.

4. I don't use bike tights. I prefer touring shorts. They are comfortable for riding but they are also loose enough to be appropriate to wear in conservative communites where bike tights might be out of place. J & G Cyclewear makes good quality touring shorts. For colder weather, you can wear sweat pants over your shorts.

8. Your biggest weather challenge will be when you reach the mountains. Once you've roughed out your route, make some calls or send some e-mails to state tourism agencies to ask about the weather when you're going to pass through. The mountains can get a lot of snow and cold weather. Be prepared. There are areas in Colorado where snow and sub-freezing temperatures are possible more than 300 days a year. Parts of New Mexico, especially in the mountains, can also get rough weather.

9. Your trek is quite a long one and you're traveling through a number of climate zones. You may wish to start with the gear that is appropriate for the first part of the journey. Then, when you move into a drier and higher area, have some cold weather clothing such as a winter weight jacket, mittens and a toque mailed out to you.

jamawani:
you might have missed my post about not leaving from mi, but from st joseph MO to cut the trip in 1/2.
nevertheless, I think I will start at the beginning of the Katy after following the link you posted. so, now the trip is about 1100 miles. 50/day means about 22 days, maybe 3 rest days and I can see doing that. i couldnt see doing 1600+ miles to go from ann arbor mi to Taos nm. i would like to, but have to board my dog.

I know about the NM roads having lived in taos and have biked enough thereto know that I do not want to go to ratone, cimmaron NM-anglefire-taos - the canyons between taos and angelfire, eagle nest-cimmaron kill folks all the time. allegedly the most deadly stretchs in NM. I'll was planning going tucumcari-las vegas taos - its a great road, and a low elevation pass. (8500 i believe). the problem is liberal ks to tucumcari - it looks like 54 is the only pavement, takes you thru dalheart tx. looks like i'd be on 54 for 200 miles! what do you think?.

i could change routes to avoid 54 and enter NM from the north - walsenberg CO-> La Veta Pass (9500') then to taos. takes 80 miles off the trip, keeps me in some pretty country longer (126 miles from walenberg to taos) at the expense of 1000' higher pass to cross the rockies. I think thats the way. just have to catch a decent window of weather and in early october thats doable in the southern rockies.

thanks about the katy trial tip - i'm definately strting in st charles mo!!!

newspaper guy:

have settled on entering NM from north despite higher pass.
only pass I'll have is between walsenburg co, and fort garland co and is about 9400 ft. I have a 20 mile climb to climb from 6100 to 9500. thats a grind, but i've done 2000' in 7 miles on a road bike and that was tough - dont think I'd like that climb loaded, but this one seems doable. the weather can be great in early october. or not. i know to wait for a good weather pattern before leaving. fortunately its only 47 miles till I'm back at 7900 ft in fort garland. taos is at about 7000. average highs in october in taos = 67, lows 32. i'll have the mittens, warm enough stuff- thats why i was considering the trailer, because of the clothing requirements. shipping sounds better but dont have anyone in MI to do that. wait, maybe i do. given all the feedback i have decided to not use a trailer, so I'll get winter coat, long tights, mittens mailed to me general delivery. will they hold that package for me? and for how long.

wow i am glad i started this thread.

Well worth it if you have wide enough tires to handle it.


I see you are heading north of this...good luck. LaVeta Pass is a nice ride, wide shoulders, consistent grade on the east side and then nice long downhill run to Fort Garland.

wow - too bad it doesnt end in wlasenburg...

yup - I've had rides in taos and colfax canyons - I lived in Taos for 5 years, started riding there. Many locals will not ride hwy 64 taos-angelfire (taos canyon) - narrow, no shoulder, blind curves winnebagos, drunk drivers, folks from the flatlands swinging wide on tight bends, big trucks (only east west route in northern NM). Its scarey in a car, mostly because you'll find an RV or a drunk (or even worse a drunk DRIVING an RV) coming at you in your lane on a tight bend. WHen you get to eaglenest, clear sailing till angelfire then same bad stuff till you are back down in taos. I never rode those canyons, and the only time I'd consider it would be during the century that they have over that route. (going on about now, I believe). Once could go eaglenest->Red River->Questa but its farther, has a 10,000+ foot pass, a 13 mile coast from red river to QUesta, and 20 miles of decent road with a LOOONG climb up over a moderate ridge back to taos. I'll take La Veta pass.

anyway, thanks everyone for all the helpful advice. I still have questions about using a 48-39-33 on the front, 22-34 on the back, and will pose this specific question on a new thread since this one is really about done, with the starting point determined, the route roughly picked, the trailer idea abandoned (yea!) and all the great advice you all helped with. chime in here if you think of anything else....

I think I'll post any additional questions in short, specific threads. this one got to be hard to handle duyring my OC oposting phase.

I'm interested in the fact that nobody has mentioned the altitude factor you will encounter as you head up. Those forumites from Taos are already acclimated; those who aren't living at altitude may not understand. i worked 4 years in Alamosa and will testify to the impact of altitude on any and all your physical activites no matter how fit you are. You may find your mileage to be less than you planned. Pretty country. have a great ride.

this i understand, as i lived in taos for 5 years, riding mouintain passes for entertainment. But that was on a road bike, and I'v e lived at 900 feet for 4 months since leaving taos, certainly long enough to 'unacclimate'. fortunately, a lot of the trip is from 450' above sea level to 1350 (st louis to wichita ks). by the time i get to syracuse KS, its 3223 feet, probably high enough to start feeling an effect. from syracuse to walsenburd, its a 3000' gain, and then a 20 mile clib to 3500, then 75 miles back to 8000' and riding in a range from 8200 to 7000'. I am targeting 50 miles a day for elevations below 4000', not sure how much to adjust above 4000' - comments?

and from 6000' on, well i have an additional 2 weeks in my plan. if I could do 50 till i hit syracuse (3200'), I be almost 2/3 way there, and i think i can do the remaining 304 miles in my two weeks fudge factor. You see I alloted 2/3 of my 50/day estimate of 3 weeks to accomodate altitude unknowns.

i didn;t ask about this because I do understand the alti=tude factor plenty enough to add a HUGE fudge factor. If I cant make it in 5 weeks, the only penalty is losing a 130 dollar airplane ticket, which is not enough to make me want to do crazy things (push too hard) to save the ticket. I have an open ended sechedule except for the ticket, so i feel good. still I'd like to cross la veta as early as i can, even though I could take a bus or hitch if i have to. i dont want to but i would.

comments welcome.

Altitude may or may not slow you down much. I don't think we adjusted our distances much on our recent tour. We definitely felt it though.

At above 4000' we just felt like we were a bit out of shape until we were at that altitude most of the time for a few days. The same thing happened as we went up to 7000-8000'. When we finally climbed over Hoosier pass (11500') we felt it again, but climbed pretty well. We were all OK on the climb, but one of us felt sick the next day.

this is really good to here. I have had MANY opportunities to have altitude sickness, and never have actually really had the illness per se. i realize that this history does not preclude having it this time, but it is nice NOT to have it in my history.

11,500 is UP there! mine is 9500 max, followed by 25 miles of mostly coasting, so feel pretty good about it.

Altitude won't be a major factor - -
Wind will.

You can COUNT ON strong headwinds in west Kansas and eastern Colorado / New Mexico - especially in the fall. The region has one of the strongest prevailing wind patterns - winds out of the southwest. And you can NEVER beat a wind - the wind will only beat you. Best ways to deal - start as early as possible since the wind picks up as the day progresses - with peak winds in the mid to late afternoon. In fact, there is sometimes a light return-flow wind just before and after sunrise. If you know where you are going to stay for the night - riding an hour or two before sunset also avoids the wind - but not as much as the early morning. And if the wind is really bad - just take the day off. It beats going crazy.

I just did 1000 miles in less than three weeks - including 7 big mountain passes.
I'm 51 and a bit overweight - so I'm sure you can do it in your allotted time.
If you ride all day it's hard to do less than 60 miles per day.
St Louis to Taos is about 1000 miles so I would guess 4 weeks - tops.

Trip report please, with pictures. Your pictures always make me nearly cry with envy.

yup - the wind. i think leaving before sunrise is a good strategy, taking time off until it starts to die down in the early evening (or when it DOES die down).

i am shooting for three weeks, and I dont care if its longer. and if its real windy, at least 'll be riding a bike.

There's a small motel on the east side that kinda caters to cyclists. You may need a real bed and shower by the time you get there! GO BOY!!!!!

thanks for the tip. I worked in Syracuse for a couple weeks back in 75, drove a huge truck around for a guy who chopped alfalfa for folks. drove it to the feedlot in syracuse. stayed there about two weeks. it will be interesting to go back there.

Post some photos and ride report when you finish your trip!

thanks, I will, meanwhile see

https://www.crazyguyonabike/jbpence

I like Sealskin Socks (with smartwool socks when it gets real cold) and sealskin gloves. Cold is bad, wet and cold can kill you.
Many car campers haave an extra gallon of white gas and they will sell or give you a bottle's worth.
Fels Naptha soap is great for day to day laundry, it's cheap and it has a little solvent in it so it will really CLEAN everything.
The rearview mirror that attaches to your glasses is invaluable. So is a balaclava.
Take extra screw(s) for your cleats, and the kevlar spoke repair kit.

I envy you your first trip. I am planning my next one, but the first one is always very special. BTW, i like using a BoB and I do like an hour or so of iPod in the afternoon, but i've toured with neither and both and it was great.

thanks very much - appreciate the info. Had these things covered, but would not have except for all the previious excellent advice on this forum, and info gleaned from reading tours at crazyguyonabike.

I started out wanting to use an ExtraWheel trailer, ordered one (arrives tomorrow) and based on a lot of feedback here decided for first tour not to use it. Will use it for sure with my cross bike (an sworks tricross, no eyelets) and my road bike in the future for shorter trips, and possibly long ones.

and I'm taking the ipod. My load is around 50 pounds including pannier weight. this doesn't include my shoes, helmet or 8 or so pounds of water and bottles. does this sound OK? It did to by LBS guy who is prepping me for the trip.

and what a shop - They ordered two bikes, both trek 520, one a 19 and one a 21". Said he wants me to be happy. I get to pick the one that fits best, is letting be have each one overnight so I can ride it loaded a bunch, then we will pick and swap the crank for a MTB crank with different rings. what a shop. This is Aberdeen Bike and Fitness in Chelsea MI. Check it out if you are in the SE MI area. These guys absolutely ROCK.

Wow, that's great service from your bike shop!

Your load sounds OK - I usually roll with about 45-55 pounds (gag), and it's fine on the flats and too much on the hills. I'm working on trying to reduce it. If you can get rid of anything, do. After the first week, re-evaluate and mail stuff home that you don't need. Pay attention to what shoes & clothes you bring, in terms of what they weigh.

Hope you have a great ride!

yup - my shoes are pretty light, the shimano's with the ratchet closure. forget the model. clothers are another matter since I am preparing for all weather - its going to be warm early, colder lat in the trip, with mountains for the last few days. so, I can probablt send stuff back late in the trip (the warmer cycling gear). Will try to pare down. have tried and succeeded some.

If you need a short trip, swing on up to East Lansing. I've got a spot just north of campus that you're welcome to crash at. There are great places to ride around here

PM me if you want a couch.


...GO STATE! :-)

Most people pack w-a-y too much for their first tour!
Lots of stuff can be eliminated, and 'if' you need something, buy it on the road.
Carry usual bike kit, Morph pump, couple tubes and folding tire. Do you really need a Garmin? Hell, have traveled all over US/world without one. Cell phone? Great in emergency, but don't own one . . . who you gonna call . . . AAA?
Don't pack a razor (grow a beard); have gotten along fine with plain old water (you'll drink more of it out west!) and use sunscreen even at altitiude on cloudy day.
A garbage bag makes a fine raincoat (cut hole for both arms/head). If its too cold out, wear your warmest clothes and that garbage bag/raincoat and crawl into sleeping bag!
Sounds like you've got enough miles/experience under the tires . . .
It's and adventure; improvise as needed . . . and enjoy!
Pedal on!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

thanks for the advice - I think I DO have too much gear - will send some back if needed.

I am concerned about rain, cold. Its fall. I am riding anywhere from 450 foot ASL to 9500'. I have things pared down to a weight of 60 pounds including helmet, one pair of shoes, three water bottles, panniers, handlebar bag, full rain gear, clothing for all these climates, a 1.1 pound down bag and 1.5 pound down throw blanket. I know its a lot. I'll ship what I dont need as I go. I could ship the colder weather gear ahead to western KS, but it isn't the problem, really. AND in late october, if I shipped the cold gear ahead, it would get cold right after I did that. I could cut significant weight if I didn't camp, or if I didn't cook when I camp - but I want to camp and cook.

the garmin 305 surely is not the problem, and I like to see things like climbing footage, cadence (I've never toured, what will I learn about cadence) mileage, time in the saddle, and sometimes compass. I keep a journal. I'm a quadruple virgo, I want this data. it is not heavy. I am taking a cell phone.

"Who am i going to call?".

anyone I want to call. A motel, an LBS on the road ahead, My LBS in order to get parts shipped to an LBS ahead of me. My tarot card reader... my kids.... whomever

it also isn't the problem - its TINY. I am carrying oatmeal and brown sugar, enough for maybe 4 mornings, is this the problem?

no - EVERYTHING is the problem. EVERYTHING is tiny. there is a lot of things though. ITs my first tour, I'm told that 55-60 pounds is do-able if not desirable, and many have PM'd me that 50-60 is what they carry. Some have told me they do it with under 20. I've read thos packing lists - not for me. I do appreciate all the input. And its my call.

so I'll winnow it down on the road. ITs the only way I can end up with the things that only I can determine as being "essential". The list is settled. and posted today at
www.crazyguyonabike.com/jbpence. I'd appreciate your feedback on that list, but I am unlikely to do anything with your feedback at this point unless you know of an antigravity device better than helium baloons (too much drag to pull them along) - I'll pare it down as I ride.

thanks for the offer to go to lansing, If I had the time I'd do it. Its too far - feel I should not do 120" miles the weekend before I depart (Tuesday I start riding). I don't want to be totally lame when I leave. I am picking up the bike tomorrow, heading out about 15 miles from the LBS so I can head back there if the (fully loaded) shakedown cruise fails due to bike problems.

jbpence, somehow i feel invested in seeing you off to a great tour... i don't know why! I read your journal. Your attitude sounds great, you are going to have the ride of your life. Just remember that all this WILL get settled down in the first few days. DO give yourself permission to ride very short days for the first week, you have plenty of time once you get going, and you will probably need to futz around with your junk a bit the first few days.

Side to side balance is crucial for front panniers - they should be within about 1/2 pound of each other. It doesn't matter very much at all in the rear ones.

I read your list, here are my comments, feel free to ignore all of them, and no need to comment back through the list - just giving you my thoughts. The questions I ask in the list are for you to answer for yourself, not for me to hear the answers. By the way, your list is very very similar to mine.

2 tubes not 3
what is the adj. wrench for?
1 patch kit
no der. cable, your bike is new, keep the brake cable
why a chain tool and a multi tool w/ chain breaker? ditch the breaker
your spare tire should be a folder if possible
too much chain - 2 links is fine
you don't need windproof pants and rain pants - pick one.

2 bibs not 3, hand wash every night in camp, dry strapped to back of rack during the next day, laundromat once a week or when convenient, most RV parks have laundry facilities

why 2 long sleeve jerseys? or is that a listing mistake?
2 hawaian shirts? or is that a listing mistake?

ADD (yes ADD) a very lightWEIGHT but warm piece of camp clothing (sweater or jacket or fleece), so you can leave your sleeping bag. I carry a very lightweight down jacket, and stuff it in with my sleeping bag. I don't see anything like that on your list.

I bet you don't need the basketball shorts.

why the foil blanket?
why 2 lighters?
definitely don't need fuel funnel
only take a couple ziplocks, you can always use baggies from grocery stores (either the carry bags or snag them from the veggie section)
knife?
where's your peanut butter? (kidding)
only carry ONE emergency dinner, and buy dinners along the way every day.

don't forget
TOWEL - medium camp towel for shower
sunscreen
bug stuff
advil
toothbrush/paste
ipod, phone, chargers
sunglasses
TAKE YOUR CAMERA
wallet, house key

jbpence, I noticed that your crazyguyonabike page includes a picture from Mystery Hill. I'm originally from that area and have been to Mystery Hill many times.

Good luck on your trip. You'll have a blast.