BlueDevil

Well, its been a long while since I've posted (and I dont know if I've ever posted in the touring forum). So here's the story.

Up until 3 years ago, my GF and I were avid cyclists. We were cycling anywhere from 150-250 miles per week, and loved every minute of it. Long story short, we got engaged, married, she started graduate school, and I finished my PhD. In other words, life got crazy busy, and biking was edged out (doh!).

We have been itching to get back on the saddles, so we made a decision that we would take our summer vacation in Scotland, and tour as much of the country as we could, on two human powered wheels for a week. No better way to get back on the bike than to have a tour looming in front of you!

We have never done a self supported extended tour though we have done extended backpacking/hiking in the mountains. I am guessing that many of the trials are similar (limited space, weight etc..). We have found an outfit in Edinburgh that will rent us touring bikes (not hybrids, but true road touring bikes), touring equipment, panniers, etc.. for what seems to be a fair price. They specialize in people who want to do their own, self supported tours, and, for a fee will plan the tour for you, choosing roads that are not so busy, taking you to unique spots, etc.. and make all of your accommodations (in B&Bs, private homes, quaint hotels, etc..). Some questions to those of you have toured:

1) Is it worth it to use a service like this? We are unfamiliar with the area, so we dont know the roads, but I have no problems with doing legwork, researching, making accommodations, etc. That being said, having someone familiar with touring in the area helping with plans seems to be attractive.

2) How different is it riding with a couple loaded Panniers? If we normally average ~20mph when ona normal road bike, can we expect to average say, 15mph with a loaded touring bike? Or is this being optimistic?

3) Anyone from Scotland here? Anyone who has done touring in Scotland? We are very open to suggestions on where to go, places to see, etc.. Both my wife and I love experiencing the landscape, culture and people of countries we travel to, and figured that cycling around a country would be a wonderful way to do this.

4) Any other tips, suggestions, warnings, elations about touring? Any thing we probably haven't thought of but should?

Any wisdom you can bestow upon us will be greatly appreciated!

raybo

This page from www.biketouringtips.com has 6 links to information about bike touring in Scotland.

I have done a lot of bike touring in England, but never in Scotland. However, it is hard to overestimate the effect that weather, rain and wind, will have on your touring. Whenever I am touring in England, the first thing I do every day is watch the BBC's weather information to try and get some sense of which way the wind is blowing. In Scotland, where the weather seems even more an issue than further south, I think you have to consider it in all decisions. That said, you may have sunny, windless days; but I wouldn't count on it.

I have never used a service to plan my trips in England. I like to get the AA road atlas (available everywhere in England) which has a scale of 1 to 190000 and shows all the paved roads in Britain. I like to use it to make my way every day on the small, country lanes. Finding my route is part of the challenge that I enjoy. Having someone else plan your trip, particularly where to stay will save you some end of the day hassle, but might also lock you into a schedule that your legs or the weather is against. Also, finding a place to stay is easily done at the local TI (tourist information) offices that seem to be in just about every village. One benefit of doing everything pre-paid is that you get to pay in your local currency instead of changing your money into Pounds.

I would highly recommend that you and your partner ride with panniers on a bike before committing to it on an expensive vacation. It makes things harder and more sluggish. The bike will have more a mind of its own. Climbing hills is tougher, you go much slower (figure a 10 MPH average), and get tired more quickly. Since you've backpacked, view it as hiking with and without a backpack. Also, regardless of how "in shape" you are, expect the first few days to be a challenge if you haven't ridden with panniers before.

Scotland is large country that is sparsely populated and contains a lot of open space. Edinburgh is a great city that requires a few days to see and enjoy.

I'd recommend that you spend some time at www.biketouringtips.com checking out the various entries that you find of interest, as a place to start.

Have a great time.

Ray

BengeBoy 

It's hard to say; different people mean different things when they talk about "averages." (includes hills? includes rest stops?).

I will venture to say, however, that if you get on your bikes at 8 am, take a reasonable amount of breaks, stop a bit for lunch, and look down at your odometer at 4 p.m. you'll find that your total, all-in average is much closer to 10 mph than 15 mph. On the one hand, that means you're riding slower than you think. On the other hand, when you're bike touring, you really don't have much else to do (unless you are camping, which requires time)...and you still can do a lot of mileage because you're spending a lot of hours on the bike. I've not done Scotland by bike, but I have done by car, and I'd say that it would be reasonable to plan covering 60 to 80 miles a day given the kind of experience you've mentioned.

I would also suggest you look at www.crazyguyonabike.com and look at the journals of folks who have ridden Scotland.

Hard to say whether hiring someone to do the trip planning is worth it, since you didn't mention costs for the service.

I certainly think that if the cost is reasonable it could be worth it. My own experience living in the UK (for two years) and traveling there both on business and pleasure is that it does require some patient research to get good value for money in accommodations or in food -- if you just wander off the street into a pub/restaurant/hotel you can feel like you spent a ton of money on not good results....on the other hand, if you have guidance (whether just doing your own research or having assistance) you can get great stuff. On my last trip to Scotland, I thought that hotel prices were outrageous for somewhere nice (I have family, so needed two rooms)...so we ended up renting an apartment in Edinburgh and a small cottage outside Inverness that were *fantastic* and reasonably priced...but it took me a couple of weeks of research on the web plus emails back and forth to find them....plus sending bank transfers to pay a deposit. I worked out *great*, but did require some time.

BTW, don't ever travel in the UK without this book! You should get in advance of your trip and then try to visit any of these pubs that are on your route.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Pub-Gui...4410010&sr=8-1

RickL

I toured a bit in Scotland a couple of years ago as part of a trip from Glasgow to Amsterdam. Check out Sustrans for cycle friendly maps. I would advise buying them in advance, availabiliy in book stores was spotty.

Campgrounds ranged from wonderful to iffy and there's no way of telling from the maps which is which. Nothing was really horrible but one or two places I considered skipping the shower. Rest stops can be a bit far apart so carry extra water. One thing that surprised me was the lack of sport drinks in most small stores. I'm used to seeing them everywhere you go in Canada and the US.

Creamcrackered

On our very first tour we had never ridden with panniers before. It took us a rather exciting couple of hours to get used to them,after that it was fine.

The weather in Scotland is very changeable and what ever time of year you go, you need to be prepared for some wet days. Timing is also quite important. Too early, in April say, the weather can be very wet (not the best introduction to cycle touring). May is reckoned to be one of the best months. In June and July the weather is a bit more reliable, but this is when the dreaded midge (very small biting insect) is around. Don't under estimate Scottish midgies, they can make camping absolutely unbearable.

Accomodation isn't particularly cheap. If you are looking for a bed for the night, expect to pay around £50 per night for a room for two, excluding an evening meal.

Despite the weather and the midgies I love Scotland - there are some stunningly beautiful places. Personally I would head for the West Coast . If you start from around Oban and follow it North it just gets better and better. Skye, Applecross and Torridon are outstanding (you could think about taking the train to Inverness, then cycling across to this area).

cyccommute 

It's been about a 100 years since my wife and I toured Scotland. We did a 3 week tour and still remember nearly every minute of it. It was one of those life defining moments that will probably be the last to fade.

There are advantages and pitfalls to having someone do your planning. They set the itinerary so if you find something that you'd rather see off their plan, you are kind of stuck. On the other hand you don't have to worry about the petty details that can drive you crazy. Depends on your level of comfort.

For a week long tour, you won't have much time to really explore the area. Loaded touring shouldn't be measured in mile per hour but in experiences per day. Don't get caught up in going very fast, get caught up in seeing stuff and experiencing people.

I'd suggest a relatively short route...less then 300 miles...so that you get to see the most in the least amount of time. One of the loveliest parts of Scotland we toured in was the Caledonian Canal region. I'd suggest starting in Inverness and head southwest along Loch Ness to the town of Oban which is very pretty seaside town. Take a trip across Mull and visit Iona with a side trip to Staffa Island. Stay the night on Iona if you can. A return to Oban and going to Glasgow will give you about 300 miles...a very good distance for a week, especially with sight seeing.


For a Scotland tour, I'd suggest not taking camping gear (we did and used it once the whole trip). That way you can get away with a fairly light load...around 20 lbs. Bikes handle a little differently with 20 lbs but it isn't that bad. If you add camping gear and food, you can easily get to 50 lbs which is a whole other animal.

See above.

I'd suggest you stay in guest houses rather than B&Bs. A hundred years ago, the guest houses were more like what we call a B&B here. You had in-and-out privileges all day while B&Bs were just that...a bed and breakfast in someone's spare room.

If you go without the planning service, there was (is?) a service in Great Britain called 'Book a Bed Ahead'. You could go to an information center in any town, tell them where you were headed and when you would be there and how much you wanted to spend for a room and they'd make the arrangement. A very civilized way of doing business. It made it really easy to travel without worrying.

I'd also suggest you learn how to eat like the Brits do. We dance around our silverware while they don't. They will know that you are a Yank the minute you open your mouth but if you handle your silverware the way they do, they think a bit better of you.

Finally, try haggis! It's not nearly as bad as people think and we found it one of the few foods over there that had some flavor to it that wasn't Indian food. Indian food is a true blessing by the way

markf

I cycled around Scotland for a few weeks in May of 2004 and had a great time. My favorite part was the west coast and the Hebrides Islands, lots of quiet roads and pretty countryside. Reaching this part of the country might be a little tough on a week long vacation, can you get away for two weeks?

If you're on a budget, youth hostels and the occasional inn/B&B would be a good way to go. Leave the camping gear at home and you can cover lots more miles. Less wear and tear on the bikes, too. I'm a fairly avid camper, I brought camping gear and didn't use it a whole lot, I might have been better off without it.

Oban is a pretty little town, Tobermory is pretty neat too. That whole part of Scotland is a great place to cycle.

Having someone plan your tour for you is a little silly, just get a good map and travel guide from Amazon.com and work out your own route. I think you'll have a much better time that way. I found the Michelin map of Scotland (1:400,000) to be sufficient, and I've been happy with Rough Guides travel guides.

Places to see:

Stirling Castle: very complete, you can see more of the castle than you can of Edinburgh Castle which is a working Army post with areas that tourists can't see. Mostly British tourists, while Edinburgh Castle was overrun with American tourists.

Fort George, outside Inverness: still a working Army base, but tourists can wander around and see lots. Lots of exhibits describing what life was like for the ordinary foot soldier in the 19th century (it was unbelievably hard), and to some extent for the ordinary person in Scotland back then.

Castle Tioram: a ruined castle on the west coast, south of Oban. No tour guides, no ticket window, no infrastructure, just an old ruin in the middle of nowhere in some very pretty cycling country.

The Scottish Crannog Center at Loch Tay(https://www.crannog.co.uk/) is a neat place to see what life was like in Scotland 4,000 years ago.

The Dun Carloway Broch and the Callanish Standing stones on Lewis & Harris are another place to see what life was like 4000 years ago.

No offense intended to cyccocommute, but I found Iona a tiny bit over-rated. Find a different island to stay the night on, maybe one with a distillery.

My favorite cycling roads were the "single lane with turn-out" roads. They're about the width of a US bike path, with sign-posted turnouts every few hundred feet. You're never out of sight of a turnout, and the drill is for the first vehicle to the turnout to stop and pull in if the turnout is on your left while the oncoming vehicle goes around you. If the turnout is on your right you stop in the roadway and the oncoming vehicle goes into the turnout and goes around you. Most drivers will flash their headlights once or put on the left turn signal to indicate that they are waiting at the turnout. These roads are marked on good maps, and in parts of Scotland these are the only roads.

Scottish roads can be steep, 20% grades are not uncommon. Definitely brush up on your vehicular cycling skills, it makes cycling anywhere in Europe much more pleasant.

May is a great month to visit, it's not as crowded and the midges aren't out yet. It can be chilly, though. I'm told that most of the places worth visiting become extremely crowded as the summer goes on, so accommodation can get harder to find and more expensive.

Chris L

I toured Scotland last July (you can find the journal through the link in my sig). I didn't find accommodation to be difficult, but that was more because of one of the wettest summers the UK has ever had than anything else. I camped most of the time. I also found that the wind predominantly came from the North, which is apparently the opposite of the "prevailing wind". Go figure.

I second what others have said about the west coast. It's stunning. You could consider getting a train from Edinburgh to Glasgow and possibly Ardrossan to start on the Isle of Arran, and just head north from there. The sea ports of Oban, Tobermory and Tarbert all have a lot of old world charm. I also particularly liked Portree on the Isle of Skye for some reason. Basically you could follow the west coast north all the way to Durness (another of my favourite places) and around to Bettyhill. I did ride across to John O' Groats, but that's probably only worth doing if you then get the ferry across to the ruins of Skara Brae.

Edinburgh is a beautiful city, and well worth spending 2-3 days. I ended up just riding around near Holyrood Park and Calton Hill, just taking in all the monuments that are up there. As someone else pointed out, Stirling is also worth a visit for it's castle. There's also an excellent museum a few miles to the south at Bannockburn. Personally, I found Inverness and Loch Ness to be just a touch overrated, but I'm sure there are others with a different opinion on that.

Just a couple of things you need to be aware of. Someone has already alluded to the midges in summer. They actually left me alone pretty well, I think the biggest problem they posed for me was when I swallowed some of them when riding up a hill. I have heard other horror stories however. The gradients over there are also steep -- even though most of the climbs are relatively short. My inclinometer measured one climb on the Isle of Skye to be 31%, so make sure the bikes you get have low gearing. The only other thing I'd suggest is to be realistic about your daily distances. You'll be passing plenty of ruins, museums and castles in Scotland, so make sure you have enough time to see them. I remember taking a full day to cover 70km on the west coast because I kept visiting museums.

jakuma

I think it would be difficult to do the west coast of Scotland in a week without taking a train there and back. Alternatively you could take the Union canal to the Clyde/Forth canal from Edinbugh to Glasgow. Take the train from Glasgow to Irvine, take the ferry from Irvine to the Isle of Arran head west across the island to visit Mochrie Moor with it's stone circles etc. Head north along the coast to Lochranza take the ferry there to Tarbet. Take A83 north along Loch Fyne to Lochgilphead from there take A816 to Oban stopping off at the prehistoric site around Kilmartin along with Dunadd fort (the power base of the early Scots). If you have time take the ferry to the Isle of Mull and visit Duart Castle and Tobermory. I agree Iona, though nice, might not be worth the effort. Taking a boat to Staffa would also take presious time though the geologic formations are nice if that's your bag and the area is a hot spot for minke whales, basking sharks etc. Take the train back from Oban to Glasgow (good views along the way) and you will have to go to Queen Street Station to get the train to Edinburgh.

Hope that helps!

mander

The Forth and Clyde canal routes are kind of a pain if you are a faster cyclist because there is so much recreational, mom+kids type cyclist traffic (not to mention dog walkers, and so on) and the paths are relatively narrow. On my one canal ride, trying to get into Edinburgh from Falkirk, I felt a little rude asking everyone I encountered to get out of the way. I wound up taking a few A and B roads into town instead. I just moved here but a local has told me that every road route into Glasgow is rather uninspiring cycling, and that the best cycle route to there from here is to pop your bike on the train.

Frida1

My partner and I toured Scotland a few years ago. It's a beautiful place to tour. Skimming through these posts, people seem to have given good advice. I can add these comments:

1. Hills can be very steep. We had several hills that measured in at anywhere between 12-25%. These roads are nothing like American highways, and touring even with 20 lb. is not like roadbiking. Everyone's different, but we've done quite a bit of international touring, and find that 40-50 miles a day is plenty. It depends on what you like to do, but if visits to gardens, castles or museums are in your plan, you want time to enjoy them.

2. We always plan our own trips, and find it's half the fun. Good roadmaps and books of Scotland are available. When possible, you want the secondary roads that are often marked as scenic. However, in some areas of Scotland the population is so low that the main highway is not that well-traveled and is the only road available. That was no problem for us. We find that carrying a tourist book with accommodations listed is a good idea. We usually form a basic plan, and then book accommodations day to day. You can call ahead one day, or even early morning and usually get something. That way you're not locked in. For instance, if you have a day of pouring rain and don't want to move on, you don't have to.

3. We have always preferred B&B's in UK and Ireland, but that's a personal preference. The estimate of US$75-100/day is probably fairly accurate. We also love to splurge on a nice evening meal and that can easily be US$30-35.00 each (with wine), but breakfast is included in your lodging, and we usually buy from a grocery store during the day.

4. We did our tour in July. That didn't prevent there being one day of of riding through icy sleet over a steep pass. We were going north to Braemar over the Pass of Glenshee. Some nice people in a car stopped and asked if we needed anything. They ended up carrying our panniers into Braemar. We didn't even have a place to stay there yet, but we looked in the book, picked out someplace and gave them the address. When we arrived, our gear and room were all waiting for us. The next day we had breakfast overlooking a forest and pasture of grazing red deer. These are the nice surprises of independent touring!

5. Although everyone seems to be recommending western Scotland, we travelled on the east side. They call it the "sunny" side. It's all relative. It's stunningly beautiful, far less traveled, and probably the accommodations are somewhat cheaper. Our route was through the Yorkshire Dales in England, then in Scotland:
Langholm, Melrose, Edinburg, Perth, and Dunkeld. Then we cut over to the A93 through Braemar, Tomintoul, Grantown, and to Inverness. From there we rode to John O'Groats. Much of the tour was very quiet and fairly traffic-free.

Have a great time!

becnal

When are you going? I'll be riding around Scotland this August.

The panniers won't make a big difference. After an hour, you'll forget they're there.

jakuma

The Clyde/Forth canal is busy on a sunny weekend afternoon but is generally open during the weekdays and early mornings. A bell is a good feature on a bike. If interested the east side of Scotland can be toured following National Route 1 from Edinburgh it goes across the Forth bridge through Fife up to St. Andrews then over across the Tay Road Bridge into Dundee then along the coast to Aberdeen up to Banff then across to Inverness. It's more rolling countryside and the east side of Britian typically has more sun.

I'm with Becnal in that panniers don't make a big difference except for steering if loaded on the front forks and in stonger winds.

MichaelW

Do consider staying in Youth Hostels. There are plenty to chose from and they are often in spectacular locations in old castles or remote glens etc. You can usually pick up a lot of local knowledge from other cycle tourists about places to seek out or avoid.
I use B&B as a backup when I can't get to a YH. If the weather changes and you get stuck with a gale force headwind you have to be adaptable.
If you enjoy slopes, the finest pass in the whole of the UK is Bealach Na Bà on the Applecross peninsuar, from which you can see the Isle of Skye.
Carrying bikes by train is possible but different rules apply on each rail company and line.

Touring pace is a lot slower than racing or training. I guage my average travelling speed at 10mph including stops for navigation, photography etc.

BlueDevil

Wow! Thanks for all of the wonderful information here! There is quite a bit to digest!

I hope my "how fast can I expect to travel" question didn't come across as me wanting to rush anything. Just trying to figure out what a comfortable touring pace would be which would allow for pictures, experiencing the countryside, etc.. It sounds like ~10mph is a good "guesstimate", which will help in our planning.

We haven't decided yet exactly where in Scotland we'd like to cycle, but y'all have given us quite a few places to look at! It sounds like this is going to be an amazing trip!

As for the suggestions to do some cycling with panniers before going to Scotland, does it change anything if we are only bringing some clothing/ride food/etc and will only have a set of rear panniers.. but not the heavy equipment like sleeping bags, tents etc? We plan on staying at various B&Bs, hostels, etc.. on our journey.

Well thanks again everyone for all the awesome info! I'll definitely keep y'all up to date on what we decide to do, and how the trip goes!

MichaelW

....and consider taking your own saddles/pedals.

becnal

Always a good idea!

cyccommute 

10 to 12 mph is a pretty good touring speed. You'll go faster in some places and slower in others and don't forget to stop and smell the roses, i.e. leave the 'de France' part at home Tours shouldn't be about distances but about the stuff in between point A and point B. Sometimes, 25 miles is a good day.

Clothing tends to be bulky but not terribly heavy. You shouldn't really have too many problems. You'll get used to the weight distribution pretty quickly. Pack light and try to make stuff do double duty. You'll probably want to pack one set of street clothes so that you don't look like a total doofus at restaurants and you may want some shoes other then cycling shoes for walking. However, mountain bike shoes...especially understated ones...make life much easier than it used to be.

You'll probably want to buy souvenirs along the way but that can weight very quickly. I mean, 2 or 3 bottles of single malt is damned heavy My wife and I shipped lots of stuff home rather than cart it around. Takes a little extra time...sometimes the shop will do it for you...but it's worth the effort.

Frida1

You may not want to spend extra money, but I like to find clothes that work on the bike, but also don't look too silly while I'm off the bike (we woman probably care more about that stuff!). I like touring shorts that have a baggy over the lycra, or even a "pedalpusher" type of pant with an interior short. Terry makes this sort of thing. Understated bike shoes are great. I usually use a mountain bike shoe or a neutral-colored bike shoe without clips. A good rainshell can double as a windshell even if there is no rain. It's a good idea to pack all your gear into plastic ziplock bags before they go in the pannier. I like to use lots of bags, as in an individual sandwich size bag for underwear, socks, etc. I think it helps for packing and unpacking as well as protecting from rain. Since most cycling rainjackets don't have a hood, I actually take a detachable hood from my ski parka and wear it under my helmet if it pours rain all day. Also good for rain are gortex socks you wear under your shoes. They are too warm in hot weather, but Scotland is usually not hot. It is good to have an extra pair of shoes for evening in case your cycling shoes are totally soaked, but a sandal such as Tevas works for this. Take a nice pair of wool socks for wearing under them at night. Even if you go out for dinner at a fairly nice restaurant, you don't need to wear fancy clothes, but 1 set of street clothes is nice. If you have one pair of microfiber pants, and 1 shirt and you only wear it in the evening after cycling, it really won't get very dirty. A light fleece or similar is essential. As someone said above, take non-bulky (as in microfiber) clothing and layer it. Microfiber will also dry more quickly. We use net bags that we can tie on the bike and let dry while we ride. Of course, this doesn't work in the rain! Putting on a pair of wet cycling short is not unheard of, but they warm up pretty quick!